Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Tuco_sl said:

fuck flying mounts, they're not going in.

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Quote of the day right here.

mkopec_sl said:

also how do you address the no instance thing you guys are all vying for? With no instances, you basically have to ramp up the content. I mean im all for social dungeons and all that, but this day and age I dont think I have the stomach to do waht we did in 99. Wait lists, etc.

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No instances is just plain stupid. Instancing all the dungeons/raid, especially with today's technology, just makes sense. I'm not saying, let's give everyone their own instance of the Plane of Time, but I think there is a balance there between competition and stupid. I like EQ2's method for older contested dungeons but I would increase the player cap to increase the socialization/grieving and competition potential.

Well if they just hired the guy who created Sebilis, and even the low level dungeons are going to make Sebilis look like a crib as Brad is saying I don't think overpopulation in dungeons is going to be an issue. But that seems like a very tall order.

Sebilis was such a cool dungeon. Everything about it was awesome.

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

As long as we are airing out all of our wishes and dreams here lol.... I have had an idea for a special rule set server a long time that I want to share.

I would think this would be a stretch goal on the kickstarter. Or, it could be a specifically funded stretch goal that is supported by donations on the actual Pantheon web server AFTER the kickstarter is done. A sort of extra if you want it, donate to support it kind of thing.

Special Rule Set Server - Ultra Hardcore faction-based Tournament server
1. The server resets everything EXCEPT character name, race, class every month.
2. Faction-based PvP with full corpse loot
3. Basic equipment sold at each faction's main city, but the good equipment is in dungeons!
4. PvP anywhere.
5. If NPC guards kill you, you can not respawn for 30 minutes.
6. If an opposing faction player kills you, you can respawn, but you can not leave the your faction's main city (and some perimeter just outside the city to harvest for crafting and kill mobs for skill ups. This restriction lasts until the NEXT real day.
7. Total kills per faction and individual players go towards determining a monthly Winning Faction and Top Players.

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Very cool idea for pvp server... this is the way pvp should be. Just flip the switch and have at it and you fight over the world ( if its not instanced ) you are always in contested content. SIGN ME UP.

And do not worry about balancing for PVP, not needed in a group based game.

gogojira_sl said:

You don't have to understand game development to realize every mechanic you add in a game takes time and money. I'm not going to list off random imaginary dollars and start multiplying a bunch of digits, but with smaller teams it's naturally going to magnify in relative costs. Of course it's doable, but can you justify it's implementation?

Don't waste man hours on a system that most people don't even seem to want.

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Yep, and additionally as players we know what mechanics are most important (combat) and least (rainbow dying your armor).

Draegan_sl said:

Breaking down game elements is a fun exercise to have. Lithose mentioned before that game developers really need to reset their mindsets and question why "must have features" are must have. Where did they come from, what problem did they originally fix, and does that problem still exist today given updated technology. Could we come up with a better solution to that original problem given the new tools developers have?

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Which is my argument against:

Draegan_sl said:

There's a reason, given the choice, people wont' use first person. It's stupid. People like seeing their character with all of it's awesome gear. Best bet is to limit the zoom out distance.

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I don't believe first person is stupid because people simply like seeing their character. That implies there's no other way for developers to solve the issue of 'players like to see their characters' than implementing a wide-spread design decision that changes the entire way the world and combat is designed and has other ramifications.

I played EQ exclusively in first-person while in combat. I was able to see my awesome gear just fine. Just not all the time, which then leads the argument to being people like seeing their character fight? Okay, great, design the game to be first person, and add a cinematic camera. Actually, that would be awesome. If you try to move, though, you're back into first person.

Hell, it can even give the 'look around corners or see behind you' advantage, as I don't really even care about that or think that's game-breaking. What I think is game breaking (for me, at least) is the slew of games designed around third-person that become ridiculous. Spells become a fireworks show seen from space. Every ability ends up having a particle effect. Armor gets bigger and shinier to be seen from a more zoomed-out distance. The indoor world is designed cartoonishly spacious to make room for the third-person camera.

All that, which imo does have pretty significant impact on how the game looks and is played, because devs can't find better ways or use better tools to scratch the itch that players like to see their characters and their awesome gear?

Jimbolini_sl said:

What about 2 years down the line and having to re run grey zones to get somewhere? Would you agree flying mounts remove that headache?

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I would only agree if the zone is a repeated inconvenience. I think people are suggesting to make zones more meaningful across the board making them less appareling to just "pass over"

mkopec_sl said:

Also, how do you address the no instance thing you guys are all vying for? With no instances, you basically have to ramp up the content. I mean im all for social dungeons and all that, but this day and age I dont think I have the stomach to do waht we did in 99. Wait lists, etc.

How bout something that AO did back in the day. Have social dungeons with a soft cap, and then another instance of the entire dungeon spawns.

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I'd bet on some instances. The only question is what percent and what kind (single group/raid, public like AO/VG).

Brad would have mentioned it already if there was zero instances.

Xaxius_sl said:

No instances is just plain stupid. Instancing all the dungeons/raid, especially with today's technology, just makes sense. I'm not saying, let's give everyone their own instance of the Plane of Time, but I think there is a balance there between competition and stupid. I like EQ2's method for older contested dungeons but I would increase the player cap to increase the socialization/grieving and competition potential.

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Instancing "all the dungeons" is just as stupid. While I lean towards no instancing , I get it probably won't happen. But there should at least be a heavy mix of open world non instanced dungeons for a crowd like this and game like this.

Regarding first-person, I thought the original Darkfall did it right. Fixed 1st person perspective combined with a very tightly fixed 3rd person view. Provided on hell of an immersive experience.

Khane_sl said:

Well if they just hired the guy who created Sebilis, and even the low level dungeons are going to make Sebilis look like a crib as Brad is saying I don't think overpopulation in dungeons is going to be an issue. But that seems like a very tall order.

Sebilis was such a cool dungeon. Everything about it was awesome.

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I agree... one of my top 3 favorite zones to this day in the EQ universe. However, with that in mind, I wonder if the actual content philosophy will be the same? Meaning, though we have that designer on board, will there be rooms with named spawns that will be contested (even lines of groups in waiting), that will potentially drop sought after items?

Draegan_sl said:

Yeah I can't wait for a game where someone randomly has to sit at their PC and not play.

"Oh fuck, I got captured. Hey guys, I'm afk for 30m."

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Dude, you're way smarter than making 'devs are dumb and won't do it right' arguments right after what is basically 'devs just have to do it right' argument:

Draegan_sl said:

The caveat is how you design your game. If you make a game world, that is full of shit trash mobs that aggro on you even if you're 50 levels above them that also daze you, dismount you, slow you down then you are probably a shitty developer.

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So, the caveat is how you design the player-gets-caught encounter. If you make a scenario where the player is captured and simply unable to do anything but go afk for 30 minutes, the you ae probably a shitty developer.

So, the idea is bad because developers are selectively bad when you don't like an idea, but can be better when you do like one?

Why not just expect devs to work harder, not retarded, on any potential idea or design that can be cool, and if they feel they can pull it off, even if it's a player-gets-captured scenario you think is dumb, then more power to devs and maybe we get a cool encounter out of it. (of course, something like this would probably require an instance, which is a different argument all together).

Dahkoht_sl said:

Instancing "all the dungeons" is just as stupid. While I lean towards no instancing , I get it probably won't happen. But there should at least be a heavy mix of open world non instanced dungeons for a crowd like this and game like this.

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You would have open world contested encounters, I just don't lump those in with "dungeons". You can still have your City of Mist.

I'm lumping "instance" into anything I got to zone into. Once it hits its said player cap, it clones itself. Scale the drama accordingly.

Goblins need buttcracks.

One thing I think you need to consider ( i.e. on Item degredation and BOP/BOE ) is these things help the crafting economy.... if they are putting real crafting in like existed in vanguard, which was exceptional imo, i would want BOP and BOE in.

Luxer_sl said:

Vanguard actually had a pretty good system called Equipment Expertise where every piece of gear had a % value based on your level. You could wear all your gear as long as all the %'s added to up <100% - so you could equip gear and weapons higher than your level but they would be a higher % than standard level gear.

For example, if a weapon dropped that was lvl 30 but you were level 25 you could equip it but you might have to unequip a couple pieces of gear (or wear much lower lvl) to do so.

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It was an awesome system that not only made people think and plan their equipment, but allowed some levels of twinking while not letting twinking let low level players completely over-power their level-appropriate content. One of the more elegant solutions to gear in Vanguard, before it got removed and the system got forced more toward the mediocre industry standard.

A challenging crafting system could be cool. Not sure exactly what that means right now, but it'd be cool to not sit here and mindlessly click icons no matter what type of crafter I'm playing.
Also harvesting. I really like how in VG when you gather wood, you chop down a frickin tree! And you can (or could last time I really played) group up to harvest.
It'd be cool to have the ability to skin a bear for the fur or maybe butcher the corpse for meat lol

Instead of flying mounts lets have boats. Just copy and paste Black Flag and rake in the money.

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

Correct me if I am wrong Brad, but if I remember from the old Vanguard beta forums, saddle bags on our mounts was originally supposed to be so we could keep a second set of gear on our mounts tied up outside the dungeon, so we would have gear if we wiped in the dungeon and needed to retrieve our corpses.

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Yeah. This is why saddlebags are souldbound. Of course, once armor was soulbound too, it was pointless except to keep clickies and trade-out weapons/focus in your saddlebag.

I swear I remember at launch dying and your gear was on your corpse and you had to fight back naked, but maybe it was beta or just my imagination.