Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Erronius said:

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Very symbolic comparison to this game.

Grimsark said:

I really wish it weren' t true, but it do...



It's very likely a doomed project now.

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Haven't checked in on this thread in a long time. Listened to a little of this. They've gone pretty much 180 degrees from Brad's original vision of this game. Sad. I'm guessing they put this out to "clarify" for all the few diehard fans they had left who still expected the game to be something close to Brad's vision (a.k.a. in the spirit of original EQ). This seems to give those fans the middle finger by telling them, "Sorry guys, we've decided to make yet another WoW clone instead." Good luck. We all know what happens to WoW clones.

Hateyou said:

So the 800 people that actually follow them and give them money they’ve decided to tell them to fuck off. Lol

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Yeah that's what it seems like. 800 people isn't enough to warrant dumping money into game development for 10 years (or even 1 year). If the people calling the shots decide a wow clone is their best bet to make a profit, well that's what the game is going to become, regardless of whether it trashes most or all of the original vision for the project.

The stupid thing is that anyone paying even a little bit of attention to the MMO market or its history would understand that this never works. MMOs seem to always gravitate back towards this idea that they can't "alienate" people by making the game difficult.

Instead of just coming up with an original vision and sticking to their guns, game design always ends up devolving into some variation of the WoW formula. The idea being, if these design decisions worked for WoW, they can work for us. It never works of course, because nobody wants to play a shitty clone of WoW.

Edit:

Make a good game and people will buy it and play it. Worrying about "alienating" people is stupid. Dying in early EQ was like getting kicked in the balls and people loved it. Why? Because it was a great fucking game. People don't mind a challenge, what they mind is a bland imitation of a game people are tired of playing anyway. Have some courage for Christ's sake, believe in your designers and believe in your game. I'll tell you what, if you design your game in a way that tells me you're worried about upsetting me or offending me, well you might not upset or offend me but I sure as shit won't be playing your game. Somebody with testicles needs to make an MMO.

Hateyou said:

ETA until they announce it’s a mobile game?

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I mean after 8 years, and they only have the small portion they do? I wouldn't trust them to make a board game, let alone a mobile game.

Arden said:

Haven't checked in on this thread in a long time. Listened to a little of this. They've gone pretty much 180 degrees from Brad's original vision of this game. Sad. I'm guessing they put this out to "clarify" for all the few diehard fans they had left who still expected the game to be something close to Brad's vision (a.k.a. in the spirit of original EQ). This seems to give those fans the middle finger by telling them, "Sorry guys, we've decided to make yet another WoW clone instead." Good luck. We all know what happens to WoW clones.

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What are your takeaways that make you feel like this?

Convo said:

What are your takeaways that make you feel like this?

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Well, first tell me if you think I'm wrong.

Arden said:

Well, first tell me if you think I'm wrong.

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What I think would be bias. I’m asking you. . It’s cool if you don’t want to drill down, was just looking to grab your impression since you said it’s been a while since you checked in.

Convo said:

What I think would be bias. I’m asking you. . It’s cool if you don’t want to drill down, was just looking to grab your impression since you said it’s been a while since you checked in.

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I don't really want to drill down because it's not really worth my time, if I'm being totally honest. But briefly:

From following this game basically since it's inception, it was clear that Brad's vision was to create a game that re-established many of the core concepts/principles/mechanics that fans of OG EQ liked. Stuff like high difficulty, lack of easy travel, significant death penalty, etc. I doubt I need to go into too much detail- everyone here knows what I mean.

Based on the vids I've seen and the very minimal bit I've skimmed around on the forums, it felt like there was some slipping away from those principles over the years of development. It felt like the game was moving away from the "hardcore" principles in favor of "reducing the barriers of entry" and "appealing to a larger audience." Based on what I saw in the forums, there seemed to be push back to this trend from a group of Pantheon fans that were dedicated to sticking to the hardcore principles.

Based on the little bit of the "clarification" vid that recently got posted (I didn't watch the whole thing), the impression I got was that at least part of the purpose of the vid seemed to be a "let's get this shit straight" opportunity for Devs to make it clear to the fanbase once and for all that the "harcore" game vision would be a "niche" game, and they were not planning to make a "niche" game, and they wanted to make a game that appealed to a large audience. This meant giving up on those hardcore principles, and that was just too bad for the vocal fanbase that kept pushing back. Frankly, the vid seemed to have an almost combative tone to it.

All that said, I could be wrong. I haven't spent much time thinking about Pantheon over the last few years and I've spent almost no time checking in on it. I also have zero personal information about the direction of the game development. So if you (or someone else with actual knowledge) tell me I'm wrong, it wouldn't shock me a bit.

Regardless, I will stick by all that stuff I said about what a huge mistake it is to try and design a game with the intent to "lower barriers of entry" and "appeal to a larger audience" or anything else that would make the game feel like a cheap copy of WoW.

that’s a reasonable response but it’s not what’s happening. I’ll hit Joppa up and see if he has time to drop by for a post. It’s been a minute for him anyway but it’s his video so a response from him would be good.

Convo said:

that’s a reasonable response but it’s not what’s happening. I’ll hit Joppa up and see if he has time to drop by for a post. It’s been a minute for him anyway but it’s his video so a response from him would be good.

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Cool- like I said, it was just my impression. If they are planning on sticking to a hardcore game in the vein of OG EQ that's great. I think it's their best chance of success and I wish them luck. But what I heard from that vid didn't sound like that was the case.

tis game gud yes?

I don't think lack of difficulty is going to be the issue with this game if it can be completed.

Mat'hir Uth Gan said:

I don't think lack of difficulty is going to be the issue with this game if it can be completed.

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What kind of difficulty? Actual game difficulty or difficulty by inconvenience?