Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Big Flex_sl said:

is that the fabled article we've been waiting for?

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it's days late and still riddled with typos and horribly short on actual information to get excited about.

the cake is a lie

The content of the article is exactly the kind of content lacking on the KS page. Would have been nice to have that info from the beginning! And i really like the proposed system, at least in theory

alright guys, we're raiding the fire dragon tomorrow, everyone go afk in the desert for an hour

Well, maybe the Rerolled MMORPG prototype gets built from this thread. If it's funded, do you hire Brad as a designer?

I actually think the system could be interesting.

My problem is it wasn't worth waiting to release it on PC Gamer and it's a shit presentation of pushing the game with that horrific fucking picture yet again.

Article is pie in the sky stuff, when I really wanted to see a business plan.

a_skeleton_03_sl said:

Anarchy Online did something sort of like it. They had certain zones where you needed items to get there. IIRC you had a temporary item to use in order to eventually craft a permanent one. There were two zones like that. You needed some lava boots to get into a zone and prevent a 2k dot and then a ring or something for the next zone that had a 6k dot.

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In Lavastorm, you needed Fire Resist gear to pull the basilisk, so yeah, the idea has appeared in a primordial form before, but it's never been taken to this level. If I were hanging out in Halas, I should be freezing in my platemail. This mechanic adds a touch of realism and makes the players think and plan. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

Dumar_sl said:

I have issues with this architecture. It's essentially a glorified lobby room if you think more than twice about it. It phases you with others in the world according to certain criteria, yes: such as if the player owns a shop, is of the same guild, past history, crowdedness of the town, etc. A bunch of factors that are used to calculate whether you'll interact with this person or not.

While the tech is certainly impressive, that isn't what I'm after. What about randomness? What about pairing me with strangers that are complete assholes or want to kill me? What about pairing me with someone I have no history with, and never will? He'll just be a few pixels on the screen for the rest of my player's life.

The randomness associated without the use of phasing is superior to the calculated outcomes with it, in my opinion. I'll play this game for sure, but it isn't necessarily the type of world I envision.

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I agree. Well, on most points. It's more than a glorified lobby because effects in the world will be universal. So if you destroy a piece of the countryside, it affects everyone (And everyone can see it). The biggest thing I dislike about this kind of "seamless mega server" infrastructure is how quickly it can break immersion. For example, if the algorithm has chosen for me to see person B, and I am person A--but person B is talking to person C, who is NOT in my phase, then I'm essentially watching person B talk to a ghost. That type of stuff SUCKS.

As for randomness. He's said a lot of the people will be there as random populations. So you'll get your share of random people who aren't on your friends list or who don't have your interests. The games main concern, he said, will be to control the world population from becoming too extreme or too sparse. But random populations will be part of the game. (The precise example he gave is..Needed populations first (Shop keepers) and Friends--->then people of like interests/Objectives (Hinted at "like" might also be enemies)--->Random populations in order to reach what would be realistic in the area.)

The big concern there is, as you said--meeting the dickhead is an important experience, even if it's a negative one. The world is full of people that don't agree with you, after all. Will the game algorithm separate me just because it knows I don't like X type of person? If so, that doesn't feel like arealworld, it feels like a fantasy for me. And I really don't want that, either. (It's a cool kind of game in it's own right, just not what I want.)

However, that being said, some of the design questions...like "Should thieves be able to break into your home and steal from you" or "Should an assasin with a bounty be able to target you anywhere?" or "Should non-consensual PvP be part of the world"...Lead me to believe that there is a chance that the "phasing" will be used only as a measure to control screen load on a mega-server, and not as a kind of "AI friends list". If that's the case? I can see myself liking it (And only being annoyed at parts like the phasing problem above.) Of course, it could also be used as a form of pseudo instancing, like you said, which would suck.

Dulldain_sl said:

Article is pie in the sky stuff, when I really wanted to see a business plan.

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PC Gamer isn't going to do an article on business plans.

Troy_Costisick_sl said:

PC Gamer isn't going to do an article on business plans.

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Similarly I doubt they were insistent that the theme of the article be "things weather may or may not affect in your hypothetical game"

jilena_sl said:

That's my feeling as well. If he had come right out and said "We just started work on this last week" and then threw up this shit that would be one thing. It's something else entirely when he says "We've been working on this since September" and it looks like they just started working on this last week. Either a.) he's lying and they haven't been prepping to kickstart this at all or b.) they are really fucking terrible at this.

Neither one is comforting.

Also, Michael Keaton is the best "modern" batman. By far.

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I think that requires you to have a very limited concept of what "working on it" means. I assume most games, especially mmos, have introductory periods of time for discussing and planning. To me it doesn't require them to be designing art or coding the game. Since the engine is such a point of discussion here, it is likely time was spent investigating various engines, for example.

I just don't think the current state of things magically precludes them from having worked on the game since September, competently. I can certainly see where you could spend that much time outlining the business itself, which does not show up in the game at all, discussing and planning the overall concept of the game and any number of things.

I also think they alluded to them essentially meeting on a regular basis, say weekly, to discuss things. There has not been 800 man hours a week of development.

A few people itt have said they don't believe kickstarter should be used to fund projects from the jump, ie actually kick start them. I disagree as it seems like a completely legitimate use of the service. Especially for creators with known experience.

If I started an mmog business from nothing I doubt I would have a lot, if any assets ready to go. Planning a business before you actually start building it is pretty important. I realize some would just create a unity demo and just build some sort of graphics before planning out or really thinking about the business or the plan. I don't think that is a sound way to start any business.

It has been pretty clear they had a small window of opportunity here and are under a lot of pressure. If they truely intend to try and deliver a good product in 42 months, then spending time planning out the game from the beginning needs to be balanced versus trying to sell on ks. There are trade offs.

Certainly a group could spend time only creating assets for the kickstarter that are essentially marketing props, as opposed to game development. However once you get funded you start from the beginning because you spent the first six months making marketing materials and not working on the game.

I don't claim to know what has happened, but taking what they have said does offer some insight. Plus I want to counter the erroneous idea that because they don't have more assets right now they could not have really been working on the game since September. In one of my first businesses it spent eighteen months just doing research. At which point I started on a business plan.

I get the impression that some people think when you decide to make a five plus million dollar game with no funding, you just sit down the next day and start coding.

In hindsight it would have been better for this group to have done a proof of concept/demo kickstarter for like 150k. This would have relieved the short term financial pressures on the group. It would have given them valuable experience running a kickstarter, and it would have allowed them to present a more polished ks to fund the start of game development.

That did not happen though. So things go from here.

Dulldain_sl said:

Article is pie in the sky stuff, when I really wanted to see a business plan.

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Why pie in the sky? That should not be too difficult or time-consuming to code. Is it fun/useful/practical would be the more important question.

The climate changes I can deal with. Depending on how it's done. I really don't like the fact that you get "acclimated" to the conditions. It sounds like just another grind. Make it permanent (I always have to wear my fur cape in cold zones) otherwise I lose stamina quicker and require a fire to rest and warm up to get my stamina back up to fighting levels. You can buy the fur cloaks for cheap but they have no stats and as you adventure in this frozen tundra you find magical artifacts and armor that have mysterious warming powers to replace the statless furs. This whole "buff" thing is just tedium with no real gameplay benefit. People are going to AFK the buff up.

Seems everyone skimmed over this tidbit though:

McQuaid also spoke of craftable or lootable weapons that would deal bonus damage to specific enemies, such as swords that unleashed hell on giants

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Welcome back bane weapons....

gogojira_sl said:

For Rerolled MMO I can bring IT knowledge, a degree centered on journalism (so I can write lore and the headlines of our failed attempt), and a warm heart. Call me, bitches.

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I can contribute not as intended rebuttals, spar with the community and ban conquest. [hey, it was part of the eq experience]

That article, jesus. Who thought of that title? Out of the whole interview, all you got was "build up resistance in a desert".