Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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He's smart enough to realize he can't post here with more vague ideas and water cooler concepts.
 
V

vazdeline_sl

shitlord
105
1
Merlin_sl said:
Can someone please make 14'ers be forced to read this prior to posting? This is how you do a fucking 1st post. Nice job dude.
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It was a good post, for someone that had a very obvious emotional bias.

You know the funny thing is, this guy's main argument is that Brad obv had no vision and copy pasted design specs from Muds. And where did their design specs get inspired from? D&D.

Also funny too, because in a recent interview Dave Georgeson was saying how all mmo's are fundamentally inspired by their tabletop predecessors.

And the most sickening thing this person spewed from their filth hole is:
I haven't seen a single new idea of value being presented. Just like he stole the design ideas of EQ from TorilMUD, he's now trying to take those same ideas and put them in a Planescape skin. Planar attunement? Yeah, that's in Planescape. Stealing the abilities of monsters you fight and forging them into your own heroic entity? That's a mix of Planescape and the short-lived D&D Birthright.
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One of the worst things that is happening in the gaming industry, and well, software development in any industry is that every company feels like they "Need" to release something so OMG REVOLUTIONARY MUST OUTDO others, where they could stick with their proven, solid features and make releases to compliment that. My company right now is reverting a bunch of "New" features because guess what: If it isn't broken why fix it.

This consumerist rush is what created shit hole games like WOW, and the 1283189237 other clones that came after it.
 
Springbok

Springbok

Karen
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Gavinrad_sl said:
lmfao

Just shut the fuck up.
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EQ was in no way a better game or MMO than WOW. I'm all over this EQ nostalgia, but come on... we left in fucking DROVES from EQ to WOW for the very reasons some of you fuckstains wax poetic about EQ now. EQ was a TERRIBLE game, but a fun, new and addicting experience. WOW was a good game. Big difference.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
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Merlin_sl said:
Can someone please make 14'ers be forced to read this prior to posting? This is how you do a fucking 1st post. Nice job dude.
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It was mostly stupid so I ignored it but since you brought it up again

As to point 1: Dear Mud fanboi everybody copied from AD&D

And as to point 4: 200k with a crappy kickstarter suggests there are more than enough old school people to fund a game with a better kickstarter.
 
D

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
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Muligan_sl said:
Lore is NOT going to bring in money. Lore is fun to read and adds to the color of the game. Here's the kicker though. Lore enhances content, gives it meaning, like it did EQ. However, there isn't much content to enhance. I'm not even talking about in-game content. I'm talking like the EQ movie when we were told about Veshaan creating the world and the purpose of every race. It really catered to you imagination.

Long story short. Lore right now is meaningless unless you are planning on this Kickstarter being used to fun a book series like Lord of the Rings except titled Pantheon.
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I'm not a lore nut , but appreciate a decent story of the overall game (no fucking cutscene stories about how I'm the special snowflake though, my character should NOT be part of the lore).To further your point that I agree with about lore is about enhancing the content, this time having far more Lore than content makes it seem almost comical if that's the right word? Not really sure how to describe what I'm saying , as all Lore in video games in made up names and so on , but when you had it representing some actual moving pixels it makes more sense , Lore without the content for a video game just is coming off as goofy. Sorry I'm not being too clear , maybe someone gets the idea of what I'm saying. Just seems Lore is not what they need to be trying to push the game with.

Merlin_sl said:
Then again, your the only class who is soloing the same mob it takes a group of six people to take down. Every class had its tradeoffs.
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I'm with you on this , I had my solo necro although did group at times and loved seeing what I could pull off with it. I thought it was an ok trade off for the warriors who got instant invites but couldn't solo shit.

Ut's point about the silly xp penalties for hybrids is spot on also, there was zero reason to make a SK take longer to level than a warrior.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Springbok_sl said:
EQ was in no way a better game or MMO than WOW. I'm all over this EQ nostalgia, but come on... we left in fucking DROVES from EQ to WOW for the very reasons some of you fuckstains wax poetic about EQ now. EQ was a TERRIBLE game, but a fun, new and addicting experience. WOW was a good game. Big difference.
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Yes, people left in droves, no denying that. And it was a better game at the time. But then over the years they turned into no more than a lobby game with L and M shaped dungeons. Why? Because they caved with their initial vision of the game to appeal to the masses which wanted easier, faster and loots for everyone.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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mkopec_sl said:
Yes, people left in droves, no denying that. And it was a better game at the time. But then over the years they turned into no more than a lobby game with L and M shaped dungeons. Why? Because they caved with their initial vision of the game to appeal to the masses which wanted easier, faster and loots for everyone.
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They gave the players what they wanted. It got out of hand but it started as good customer service and a development team that actually listened to its audience. Something EQ never had.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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tad10_sl said:
It was mostly stupid so I ignored it but since you brought it up again

And as to point 4: 200k with a crappy kickstarter suggests there are more than enough old school people to fund a game with a better kickstarter.
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More like 1,600 people. Not even enough to fill up 1 server. Try again.
 
T

Troy_Costisick_sl

shitlord
437
0
13 hours since Brad tweeted something (a link to a video) on his Twitter.

2 hours since the Panthron Twitter linked the update on the Kickstarter, 7 hours since it noticed we hit 200k, 16 hours since it noticed we were getting close to 200k.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
tad10_sl said:
It was mostly stupid so I ignored it but since you brought it up again

As to point 1: Dear Mud fanboi everybody copied from AD&D

And as to point 4: 200k with a crappy kickstarter suggests there are more than enough old school people to fund a game with a better kickstarter.
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I don't care as to the content of his post. I was referring to the way he approached his first post. Ohh, and he didn't start crying and telling us how mean we all are here. As to his content, some I agree with, some I don't, but at least it was well written.
 
F

Flc_sl

shitlord
121
0
vazdeline_sl said:
It was a good post, for someone that had a very obvious emotional bias.

You know the funny thing is, this guy's main argument is that Brad obv had no vision and copy pasted design specs from Muds. And where did their design specs get inspired from? D&D.

Also funny too, because in a recent interview Dave Georgeson was saying how all mmo's are fundamentally inspired by their tabletop predecessors.

And the most sickening thing this person spewed from their filth hole is:


One of the worst things that is happening in the gaming industry, and well, software development in any industry is that every company feels like they "Need" to release something so OMG REVOLUTIONARY MUST OUTDO others, where they could stick with their proven, solid features and make releases to compliment that. My company right now is reverting a bunch of "New" features because guess what: If it isn't broken why fix it.

This consumerist rush is what created shit hole games like WOW, and the 1283189237 other clones that came after it.
Click to expand...
Let's just say that EQ is far more derivative of TorilMUD than WoW was of EQ. And my argument isn't against derivation, as much as it is about the fact that 1) when you're copying and pasting things like skill lists, entire zones (Freeport's map looked identical to TorilMUD's City of Waterdeep) you're crossing the line from derivation to plagiarism, and 2) the shoddy nature of the Kickstarter so far has conveyed a message that we should support Brad because of his pedigree rather than his ideas. I'm just pointing out his pedigree really isn't that impressive.

I agree with you that the "revolutionary must outdo" bent has run its course, but the fact of the matter is, that's what sells. You can either do the same thing with minor updates and make it look incredible technologically (Final Fantasy 87; Super Mario 49 Worldland) or you can propose things that will excite people because they're different. That's what makes money in the game industry. And Brad isn't doing either.
 
pharmakos

pharmakos

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Flc_sl said:
Hi. First post. Feel free to dismiss this, since I'm a January '14 baby, and I wasn't in EQ on launch, joining a year later. My computer wasn't good enough at the time, I was young, and so I spent most of my time in MUDs. But since that time, I've played every major MMO and so I think I might be able to offer a different perspective as to why this Kickstarter is failing - and, frankly, should fail.

1. Brad McQuaid isn't actually a good designer. He's lazy and a plagiarist.

I know there are people out there who view him as a (planar) god, but he's a quintessential example of a guy - as he himself admits - who was in the right place at the right time. And I'm not even talking about the drug-fueled disappearing act he did on Vanguard while other people did the work. I'm talking about EQ. The vast majority of the things he implemented in EQ that you all like were, in terms of game systems, plagiarized entirely from Sojourn/TorilMUD. He did a decent job of creating an actual world and the relevant lore, but I've heard rumors that he ripped off most of that from his old DM.

Need proof? Compare the skills of Sojourn/TorilMUD's ranger with that of EQ's ranger:

TorilMUD:


EQ:


Good job cutting and pasting and adding graphics, Brad.

2. If there IS a "vision" for this MMO, it certainly hasn't been communicated.

Folks here can mock Dave Georgeson all they want (and I have my own issues with him and the creepy eternal-smile) but his EQN reveal (regardless of what you think about the game) was brilliant. "Here are our core pillars. Here's the rationale for why we think these core pillars are essential to evolving MMOs. Here are examples of how these core philosophies will play out in in game systems."

What are Brad's core pillars? Grouping? Dude, every MMO has grouping - you didn't provide any tangible examples for how the grouping would be significantly different except for the fact that there will be more of it.

That's how Pantheon's Kickstarter reads now: an MMO being made by a guy who "designed" MMOs (and by that I mean plagiarized and/or stumbled around in a drug-fueled stupor) that has GROUPING. More on this in #4 below.

Imagine if he communicated whatever his stupid ass vision is in more concrete terms that communicated an overall design philosophy. If he had branded this entire thing as: "A Return to the Hardcore MMO. A constant challenge. Doing to World of Warcraft what Day Z did to Resident Evil and Dark Souls did to the Legend of Zelda." No idea if he's just a complete moron at how to brand ideas, or if he just doesn't have any ideas to brand. (Based on the bullshit he's released since then, like attunement, I'm suspecting the latter.)

3. No new ideas or better presentation and packaging of those ideas.

To have a successful Kickstarter you have to have ideas that are off-the-charts revolutionary (StarForge) OR you have to put older ideas in a new, polished and interesting package (Banner Saga) that people find compelling. I haven't seen a single new idea of value being presented. Just like he stole the design ideas of EQ from TorilMUD, he's now trying to take those same ideas and put them in a Planescape skin. Planar attunement? Yeah, that's in Planescape. Stealing the abilities of monsters you fight and forging them into your own heroic entity? That's a mix of Planescape and the short-lived D&D Birthright.

And as for the packaging - it looks like shit. And the reasons are obvious - they don't have any cash, pre-alpha, etc, etc - but really, it looks terrible. And when you combine stale ideas with terrible packaging, you don't get money from Kickstarter.

4. There aren't enough old-school EQ fans still out there and interested in playing MMOs to fund this.

If there was, it would be well on its way to being funded already. The fact of the matter is, for this to get funded, it has to bring in new players from other, more established MMOs. That's why Camelot Unchained was successful, even though it had old ideas as well - there were a bunch of guilds that were playing Guild Wars 2, were unsatisfied with the RvR PVP provided by it, weren't seeing anything of potential in Elder Scrolls, and thought: "This may be our ticket." Many of those guild leaders played the original DAOC but many of their members didn't, but were influenced by their guilds.

The MMO you have to pull 'new' players from is Warcraft, Brad. And while we all know that EQ was a better MMO than Warcraft, precisely because it was more focused on community and far less casual, the majority of WoW-babies have no idea. And what you're showing them - an MMO that may look like shit but it has grouping!!! - isn't going to pull them away.

5. From day one, it's been sloppy and unprofessional.

Enough said. Why trust you with any money? Fans tend to be smarter than whatever ghost investors (Smed) you've lined up.
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mkopec

mkopec

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I think right now the writing is on the wall. Either they are scrambling to come up with some more shit to share, or they all but gave up.
 
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