exactly this. had they put even the minimal amount of work/effort into this game BEFORE starting their KS campaign, this thing would have hit over a million dollars easily. i just wanted to see something of the game itself when the KS went up, but there was absolutely nothing except for a bunch of guys talking about what an exciting game they were going to make. had they actually done some work between november and last month and had something to show everyone, they would have had the money they needed to get this thing off the ground no problem. unfortunately, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression, and the impression they gave most of us is that this is amateur hour.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
this fucking guyComplaining about the game itself would be a giant step forward because there would be a game to complain about
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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You actually had one lunatic make a thread on their forums saying that because TWD referenced the word 'Terminus' that it was an omen that this game was getting made, I shit you not.Map of Terminus
As far as that poll question about assist goes, this is why this game is doomed to fail even if it releases. Some of these people was EQ reskinned (mechanics and all), which they are not going to get. It'll be fun amusement reading the bitching then.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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If you really want to measure it I would imagine checking again after the first month comes up for that forum sub fee would be a good time... of course if they disclose it.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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It's been pretty civil. Honestly, a lot of the stuff has been talked about and you just don't see a whole lot of raging. One of the bigger things I was adamant about not happening were 8 man groups. It's just too much. They are going to go with 6 in alpha. I doubt it'll get moved to 8.
The bigger things during the KS have been dungeon finders and LFG tools. A lot of feedback on that stuff and I doubt we will see them play a huge part in the game. Travel was a hot topic for a while there. I can't really think of anything else that might enrage folks? If you do, let me know and I'll see what the general vibe is ATM about it.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I've been beating the dead horse with this to Brad. There are a ton of non paying members on the site. I keep trying to make the point a large donation still feels too risky for a lot of folks and they need to get the sub acummulaion ASAP. I even sent him a tier to reflect it. Some rerolled folks have made post about it too. I think if you're going to pay $15 a month over 3 years= $540. You should get a pledge tailored for that final amount. I think more people would be inclined.. If they don't get it up soon they miss out on a months worth of subs.
Maybe I'm wrong and it won't add anyone. It still needs to exist for the current backers.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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ha yea.. it's all good. I really don't post a whole lot now unless I think I can provide some kind of insight or drop new info for those who asked.
I have no delusions about the risk involved. I'm just not ready to pull out at this point. I can't help if that angers people to the point they want to block me lol!.. If you ask some of the rerolled folks there, maybe they will have a different opinion, but I just don't see a doomed project at this point.
Bruman
Golden Squire
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If they can make a rudimentary alpha product with their current team and funding, then they're fine. But I think that's BEYOND a long shot. Let's just play math!
I'd consider a "rudimentary alpha" to consist of the following:
-One zone/dungeon with some monster packs in it (doesn't even have to be the full dungeon/zone)
-Serviceable UI showing the things important to the game - art would not expected to be final
-The basics of combat and how it flows - initial versions of a few skills, initial implementation of stats, maybe an idea of how resistances will play out, etc - basically anything that will have impact during combat should have a basic simple version of it in place that affects the fight
-The basics of being able to group and send a message to one another
-The basics of equipping gear, looting gear, and a basic inventory
This is something you show to people to get an idea of what's going on with your game. That makes it able to do a Kickstarter, or seek VC, etc.
Now what budget do they have to work with? $150k with a team of ELEVEN people. Of those eleven people, we have to assume most can't keep going without a paycheck. Lets be nice and say 8 of them need a paycheck (others having more money saved up, or only working part-time). We'll even round up to $160k funding. That's $20k per person. These guys are all touted as "years of experience", so being six figure dudes is probably a given. But you often take a paycut when you're working for a startup (I know I did). Lets say they're only making $70k each right now - should be plenty to keep paying the mortgage and feeding their family without too much of a quality of life difference. That's $5.8k/month.
That gives them less than 4 months to put this together - and that's still with a few dudes drawing $0 and everyone probably taking a paycut. The Kickstarter we got was what that team developed (minus Ben I think?) after 3-4 months of work.
Hey, maybe they already have what I talked about above, but they don't want to get trashed for alpha footage again. That'd be great - I still would love to play this game, I just think their approach is laughable. You don't create a startup with this many people who don't produce a consumable and you definitely don't focus on absolutely unneeded money drains like an office.
Skanda
I'm Amod too!
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This project is doomed as fuck but half the fun will be watching the mental breakdown of the still faithful. Sadly most of the real drama when they finally start realizing it has been paywalled where I can't see it.
Vitality
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Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Ha! I'll abort before then.
Btw.. It seems Sal is pretty much running the team. Assigning tasks and such.. I don't think that's going to change any perceptions but Brad seems to be more involved with getting funding than anything else.
Good post Bruman. I wish I could recall where I saw it, I try and find out later but I think a demo is in the works. Not 100% sure.. Been busy so need to catch up on some stuff.
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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This is why paid closed forums is a really bad idea. Because if devs are giving feedback to 'backers only' on this kind of stuff (what is and is not on the table for the game), how can they possibly expect new people to buy into it? Hell at least let non paying member read the 'apprentice developer' forums. Honestly, because it's a closed (I paid my money) forum, the devs can pretty much say anything I would think within reason and most everyone there is going to eat that up because they're already invested. Those people are stuck with this game no matter how it turns out.
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Ahh so the same approach he used with Sigil there is no way that could backfire at all. Still don't let anyone get you down if you wanna funnel money into this black hole and it makes you happy then by all means do so. Still it's interesting to come here and see how badly they continue to fuck things up.
Someone earlier said something like if they pulled a miracle out of their asses and made a great game we would still bitch. Which is probably true but we would all play it and I would admit I was wrong but that shit is never going to see the light of day. Below is some footage of Brad looking for investors.