Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Holy shit is half the board posting in this thread? I can't believe all the arguments I've had over the years from people saying there was no interest/money in a McQuaid type MMO.. Shit's changed around here fast..

Anyway.. How can you have a solid, challenging group based game without consequence? There will have to be some form of pain.. be it death penalty, travel, or some new feature.
 

Zoeii_sl

shitlord
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0
I can say at this point that were we to ever have flying mounts then it would be a stretch goal. Flying and getting flying done right is some serious work and can't be rushed.

As for 1st and 3rd person views, you can choose either, and we are architecting the world the same as EQ and VG (so in confined quarters 3rd person becomes less useful, but then outdoors you can back the camera out and use it during travel to make sure nothing is chasing you, etc. )
I would really hate to see flying mounts in this game. The reason being is I feel that when you hop on a flying mount, you get disconnected from the world. I would love to see an amazing seamless world like the Norrath of EQOA. In EQOA, there were no mounts and the quests were designed to get you out into the world and exploring.


In response to the question about action bars, I would also like to see a limited action set but I feel the magic number would be closer to 15 or 20. I was very disappointed with the way the limited action set was handled in GW2. I would really hate to be restricted to half of my bar's abilities coming from my weapon of choice.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I would really hate to see flying mounts in this game. The reason being is I feel that when you hop on a flying mount, you get disconnected from the world. I would love to see an amazing seamless world like the Norrath of EQOA. In EQOA, there were no mounts and the quests were designed to get you out into the world and exploring.


In response to the question about action bars, I would also like to see a limited action set but I feel the magic number would be closer to 15 or 20. I was very disappointed with the way the limited action set was handled in GW2. I would really hate to be restricted to half of my bar's abilities coming from my weapon of choice.
Not only that but I think Flying mounts are just so far down the list of cool shit we could add to this game. I'm surprised we are even talking so much about it..

Curious Brad.. will crafting/harvesting be a stretch goal? I'm not a huge crafter but I really do miss the economy around crafting when it's done right. I always sold Bags in games like EQ, WoW and Rift.. little by little shit like that just drops too much or the players can buy the extra bag space.. I want bags to matter again! lol

I also think Crafting can always be used to fix certain features of the game without having to remove them. I could provide examples but i've theorycrafted enough..
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
I like limited slots, it means your knowledge of the class and the dungeon you head i to matter. Of course tbe abilities have to be different and meaningful, not just dpsbutton a, b and c.

Heres a rundown of decisions I made before even stepping into most dungeons, depending on zone and group:

Does mez work? Which and how many to load?
Which Tash?
Root?
Stuns? Which/how many?
Slow?
Charm?
Dispell?
Nuke?
Lull?
Probably more I am forgetting.

Now you can either have all available all the time, preferably with the UI telling you which button to push, or you skip some convenience and develop your own style/preferences for different situations.


(Single mez, ae mez, single tash, root, 2 fastest pb stun, slow, switch slot usually nuke. If you did it different you did it wrong!)
 

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
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Please bring back opening your spellbook and sitting down to regen mana. Also Gems.
 

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Holy shit is half the board posting in this thread? I can't believe all the arguments I've had over the years from people saying there was no interest/money in a McQuaid type MMO.. Shit's changed around here fast..

Anyway.. How can you have a solid, challenging group based game without consequence? There will have to be some form of pain.. be it death penalty, travel, or some new feature.
I'd be horrified if there isn't both a death penalty and meaningful travel.
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To throw out what I posted once in another thread here a few months ago my idea of a death penalty (if I admit we can't do straight EQ only forced naked corpse runs with xps penalty even if I want that ) is something like this,

A bit of a choice between EQ and VG style penalty. You have the naked corpse run to get back your stuff , if you do this , zero equip damage , and zero xps loss.

Second option would be a solo way of summoning your corpse at some stone whatever , this costs a decent amount of coin , (make it scale according to level if needed ) , plus noticeable xps loss.

Third , have the local necro class (or pick whatever ) , and give them ability to summon your corpse , don't make it cost anything , and you get a medium xps loss.This makes it cheaper , donate to the necro (class interaction ) and a better outcome xps wise than just paying at the stone.

But the naked corpse run , that likely is dangerous , gets you everything back. Just seems a way to encourage the group to fight back down to get their stuff old school wise , the pure solo anti-social (or just in a rush player that night ) the pay coin and take the xps hit has their way , or you could talk to that black shrouded necro and tip them to get your stuff and half your xps back.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,792
664
I'd be horrified if there isn't both a death penalty and meaningful travel.
tongue.png


To throw out what I posted once in another thread here a few months ago my idea of a death penalty (if I admit we can't do straight EQ only forced naked corpse runs with xps penalty even if I want that ) is something like this,

A bit of a choice between EQ and VG style penalty. You have the naked corpse run to get back your stuff , if you do this , zero equip damage , and zero xps loss.

Second option would be a solo way of summoning your corpse at some stone whatever , this costs a decent amount of coin , (make it scale according to level if needed ) , plus noticeable xps loss.

Third , have the local necro class (or pick whatever ) , and give them ability to summon your corpse , don't make it cost anything , and you get a medium xps loss.This makes it cheaper , donate to the necro (class interaction ) and a better outcome xps wise than just paying at the stone.

But the naked corpse run , that likely is dangerous , gets you everything back. Just seems a way to encourage the group to fight back down to get their stuff old school wise , the pure solo anti-social (or just in a rush player that night ) the pay coin and take the xps hit has their way , or you could talk to that black shrouded necro and tip them to get your stuff and half your xps back.
Could i tweak you second? I would make a crafter item. Survivor bag. One shot corpse retrieval/summon. Make it rare and require components from the clasess that would normally do a CR/REZ so they get in on the $$ trading their talents..Being rare enough it will cost more $$ plus add toe the economy and crafting system.
 

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Nothing like sitting down in a place you thought you were safe , whipping out the spell book , and then seeing Sgt Slate has killed you red text followed by loading...........
 

bigdogchris_sl

shitlord
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GREAT WORK!
I approve of the list.

Also, I would love if you can add "make every NPC attack-able." to the list.
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There's something like that in there. "No unkillable NPC's as a rule, rare exceptions may be made"

The creator of Sebiilis (and many other classic zones) recently joined the team. We asked him to make his first Pantheon dungeon make Sebilis look like a pre-school. He smiled and nodded.
That's awesome news. Lower Guk was my favorite zone but Sebilis is #2!

Well, that's a good effort. but not everything on there is exactly unanimous (the flying mounts, for example.) Probably at least need to include some indication of sentiment to make it a somewhat accurate picture?
I'm trying to list the most popular request, not every request. Most people are against flying mounts anyways.

Can mobs please go back to visibly holding and using the weapon they're about to drop? Like say, Willsapper. And make use of effects on their gear, like FBSS hasting the frenzy frog's melee.
I'm really pushing for realistic/intelligent/organic (whatever you want to call it) drop tables. I don't like seeing NPC's dropping items that they wouldn't be using. That of course also means if you see an Orc wielding a long sword, it should be dropped.

When you see a snake drop a breast plate, a rat dropping a cloth cap, etc. it breaks the immersion for me, plus it's just plain silly to do and doesn't fit from a role playing perspective. Original EQ was actually very good about this, but many modern MMO's are not, so it's really a design choice.

What about 2 years down the line and having to re run grey zones to get somewhere? Would you agree flying mounts remove that headache?
In all the years I played EQ, I never bought a mount. I didn't have a problem running because I just loved the world design.

A sophisticated game isn't just about "great group mechanics", I think it's also about a world that you can immerse yourself into and really care about, beyond the idea of it being a game where you grind XP. Unfortunately flying mounts and certain things like that can really take you out of the game because you pass over everything so quickly. Content last much longer if players can't easily skip over things, and adding in more player to player interaction like teleports can encourage a community while also solving some of the problems that may exist with travel. But if you don't get a TP and have to run, many adventures may pop up along the way
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.

Overall, I think "guaranteed fast travel / content skipping" mechanics are one of the most abused and overlooked aspects of content consumption in modern MMOs, content that was painstakingly designed at a very high cost mind you. Consuming content isn'tjustkilling NPC's.
 

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Could i tweak you second? I would make a crafter item. Survivor bag. One shot corpse retrieval/summon. Make it rare and require components from the clasess that would normally do a CR/REZ so they get in on the $$ trading their talents..
Oh that sounds good way to tweak that , still gives the solo'r the option to buy that if local necro is not around as an option while encouraging trading interaction. I guess the only thing you might have to watch would be how rare are the components , you'd want to balance out the fact they are taking the xps loss and paying , not saying it shouldn't still cost , just make sure rare doesn't mean they aren't on the market often , just rare meaning they are there just pricey.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,792
664
Oh that sounds good way to tweak that , still gives the solo'r the option to buy that if local necro is not around as an option while encouraging trading interaction. I guess the only thing you might have to watch would be how rare are the components , you'd want to balance out the fact they are taking the xps loss and paying , not saying it shouldn't still cost , just make sure rare doesn't mean they aren't on the market often , just rare meaning they are there just pricey.
exactly.. It's just a solution to soften a blow but still feel it. The cool thing is that could scale level wise. It's better than the alternative of not making death matter so if the team doesn't fully want to commit to an EQ type system, I'd wish they would consider our ideas.
 

Mur_sl

shitlord
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Just to toss in a grenade , I'm sure there will be folks on both sides ,( hopefully I'm not too far in the minority and will have a few with me on this ), but screw worrying about class balance when it comes to soloing.

If the game is , and should be , based on grouping and interdependence overall , who gives a shit if someone figures out that their druid can pull shit off solo that their cleric can't dream of. If much of the content requires a group anyway , if someone figures out a couple classes can do some fun shit out in the world solo that other classes can't ,don't nerf it. Let them have their fun. It hurts no one.

Trying to balance every class for solo abilities = bland , boring , homogenized classes.
I'm with you 100%. Classes should not be balanced for solo ever. I loved that there was no such thing as "solo" content in EQ. There was simply content, and if you wanted to try to solo it, more power to you, but you'd better be ready to die...alot. I played an SK and/or Shammy up to OoW, and soloed a ton on both. I loved having my roomates freak out while watching me solo things I never should have tried.
 

jilena_sl

shitlord
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Not only that but I think Flying mounts are just so far down the list of cool shit we could add to this game. I'm surprised we are even talking so much about it.
My only reason for mentioning it was all of the instant dismissal of flying as being a horrible thing. It's not. I just look at it like how I felt about swimming playing EQ and taking it for granted and them playing newer games that felt it was a "fluff" feature and either made it not have a z axis or in some cases just being an instant drowning or straight up water breathing.

I don't think it should be a core feature. I just don't think it should be dismissed even if not implemented at release. It needs to be considered if it will ever be in. It is guaranteed to suck if it's just added in to existing content as an afterthought. Better not at all than WoW flight.

I hope crafting isn't dismissed either though I have no interest in crafting really for that matter.