Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
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Chanters were good. The only classes I felt really got shafted in the early days of EQ were the rangers, shadowknights, and paladins. At least wizzies could port and x-locate. But rangers stunk until PoP and Sk's and Pallys blew until Luclin.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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You know dumar. You're problem is your so good damn militant to anyone who doesn't agree with you. You make a ton of good points that I agree with. Why not try to actually have a conversation for once without having a fucking heart attack.
@tad. Love you too, fuck monks.
Because I'mangry, and you should be too. We all should be. We as a community, a MMORPG community, should've gotten a better serving of games than we've had. We've been served literal shit for a decade,literally, garbage. And this garbage wasn't because a group of game designers tried something new and genuinely just fucked up, which would be forgiven. No, oh no. We've been served heapings of shitpiles because this industry thinks it can invest 250 million dollars to make millions of more dollars by dumbing-down mechanics as much as possible so every paraplegic blind monkey in a nursing home can sub it up. To make it worse, they don't even label it honestly, but use bogus business-speak like 'accessibility' and 'listening to the community'. No, fuck you, you're listening to marketing heads and focusing on earnings calls.
BE ANGRY, damnit. You have a right to be.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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I don't make games and either do just about everyone who posts here. Why take it out on us?
the sad thing is blizzard and riot are swimming in piles of money as you sit there stewing away. not that i disagree with you, but the majority will always look for something easy
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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I'm very interested in the Q4 sub numbers for WoW. They've been losing 600k-1m subs a quarter for the past few quarters.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Just for shit's and giggles anyone have a summary of the Silius drama ? I bailed on VG around 3-4 months post SOE full take-over , but do occasionally remember reading some heavy angst and teeth gnashing from those still playing it on some boards regarding Sil.
Wow made the decisions of an old game. They made travel easy and death not sting. But that's the decisions all old games make. The real crime is the new games that come out and are completely soulless.
I also don't like to call shit dumbed down. Rift was unforgiving as hell in the raids, but I quit because that ddr raiding just isn't fun to me. Not because I found the game too easy. The move from social skill and a bit of time investment determining how far you got to twitch skill was a bad one for me. I hate the fpsization of mmos.
I also don't like to call shit dumbed down. Rift was unforgiving as hell in the raids, but I quit because that ddr raiding just isn't fun to me. Not because I found the game too easy. The move from social skill and a bit of time investment determining how far you got to twitch skill was a bad one for me. I hate the fpsization of mmos.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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If Silius is on the team it's because Brad sees him as a team player that can bring something to the table.. Who knows maybe a trade skill system? I know he mentioned in his blog that some people just didn't fit during the VG project.. I'm assuming Silius wasn't one of those, thus he's back working with Brad.
I'm fine with the first 5 to 7 levels being solo-able. I don't want to have to find a group when hunting rats and snakes outside the Freeport gates. When I get high enough to take on orcs at Orc1 and Orc2, then I need a group.
the basic gist of the animosity towards sillius stems from his constant snide and dismissive replies to people who posted about issues in game, not to mention heavy handed nerfs to several classes. and oh yea, the infamous december post putting vg out to pasture. granted that post wasn't exactly his fault, soe has always been pretty shitty about its support in vg, but we all like to hate on the messenger because he already had so much baggage.
but i have to give credit where credit is due. even though i don't like crafting, vg's system is pretty damn complex.
oh which reminds me, i hope pantheon does not incorporate class leads. i hope the devs actually play the classes they design instead of relying on a few representative people giving feedback about a class
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Remember that Silius was Lead Dev and basically had carte blanche on what happened to VG post Sigil sale:
The worst stuff came down in 2009 about a year after I quit so you'll have to track down some of the guilds and guild leaders who quit at that point because of him - as I understand that beef (grain of salt time) Silius had flat out promised to bring in new high-end raiding content (remember that by Fall 2009, people had been raiding APW for more than a year and there was pretty much no new content) and then in Fall (edit: Calla says December) announced that there would be no new development. As you can imagine, people were pissed and rage quit because they top guilds had been in a holding pattern for a while.
My issues were the following, unrelated to the 2009 letter:
(1) He seems to take MMOs as a joke and thus is the anti-immersive dev - things like naming NPCs (Silisaurus) and Land Masses (Silius Flats) after himself and a few other devs; putting in "funny" factions like kamelott and KDQ that were just annoying, and then making them important late game factions.
(2) Despite (1), he didn't seem to actually like players to have fun, so he changed or removed various quests that were fun (most notably the vampire quest) and gave Vanguard its charm.
(3) With (2) as an example he had very weird priorities - the amount of time and energy spent on Isle of Dawn could have gotten a 2nd raiding area. As was pointed out numerous times on the boards, they could have made a few alterations to Tanvu and just had that been the default starting area. Numerous exploits and bugs that had existed since release are still not fixed, AFAIK.
(4) He mudflated and casualized the game - fast ports everywhere, got rid of the various racial starting areas (just down to three post 2011), worsened the mudflation by introducing new low level items much better than late items. Increased the XP gain rate so you outleveled dungeons and basically everything you shouldn't do when there is very little endgame content ;-)
(5) And yes, as Calla notes, he was pretty arrogant the few times I read his stuff. As with everything (take the Isle of Dawn example) he seemed to believe he knew what was right for the game instead of working with the players - the very people who had stayed with the game despite its bugs.
(6) And of course, AFAIK, he has never done a mea culpa or apologized to the player base for the changes, nerfs and or arrogance. Thus the reaction
All that said, at Sigil he worked on VG crafting and nobody really had an issue with him and a lot of people liked VG crafting. So he may be a case like Brad, Brad should never have been CEO of Sigil, just Lead Dev. Salim should never have been a Lead Dev, maybe just a regular dev. We'll see.