Path of Exile

Vorph · Nov 17, 2013

That's the same situation I have always found myself in, right before I quit each time. I've used hundreds unfusings on various items and I've never once made a 5L let alone a 6L. Same with chances, hundreds spent and not a single unique rolled. Hell, I can't even 6S an item with jewelers orbs. Last I tried I used 120 of them and only got a grand total of FOUR 5S rolls and maybe twenty or so 4S, and at the end I was left with a Voll's Protector with one blue socket in it (and before someone asks, the item is ilvl 69*). Why the fuck is that even remotely hard to do? It's not like a 6S item is worth anything special, since it's still so far from being a useful piece of equipment.

The friend I duo with made a Soul Taker yesterday, which is allegedly about a 1:500 chance, and it's the key item to his build. So I guess some people do have luck with this system, just not me. I run 50IIQ and 100IIR (+56 more when I kill with the correct skill) and hope for the best. Which is to say that I fill up a tab with fodder to be sold for chaos orbs.

It's not like you can try to post on their forums with these sorts of complaints either; if you try your threads will be filled with pages of fanboi faggots who post "LOL RNG LOLOLOLOL" as their answer to everything. I've given up hope on them making radical changes to their systems anyway; it was painfully obvious throughout beta that the designer is the type of person who is married to his ideas. Even simple requests like changing loot allocation were met with outright dismissal for months, and when change finally came the alternatives both sucked.

My only solution to the problem, since I still enjoy playing the game in spite of its terrible loot system, is to use extremely restrictive rules when it comes to picking a build:

1. Bows and 2H weapons are out. Two potential 6L slots (Kaom's Heart is almost as bad if the build uses it)? Yeah, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that.
2. Nothing that needs more than a 4L to function, which rules out almost everything based on leeching.
3. Lots of cheap uniques are a huge plus.
4. Slots free for IIQ and IIR, and preferably at least one skill that culls with Item Rarity and/or Item Quantity supports.

As you can probably guess, that list rules out about 95% of all builds that are worth a shit. I'm playing aTri-Element Trapper Shadowright now since it miraculously fit all my criteria, and it's actually pretty fun and there's only two or three map mods you absolutely cannot do. Especially nice is the fact that it's 100% immune to reflected damage. Sadly, the guy who made the build has since changed it from using a cheap 6S4L2L Cloak of Defiance to wanting a 20-25ex 6L Carcass Jack instead. It still works the old way, but his new version is obviously far superior. Carcass Jack itself adds a large boost to traps, and adding Concentrated Effect and Increased Burning Damage to Fire Trap is huge as well.

(* - Speaking of that, why do we still have to pick up an item and type /itemlevel to check that shit? It's annoying and it allows people to scam you by claiming an item is higher ilvl than it really is. Put it on the tooltip ffs.)

Nulolan · Nov 17, 2013

I really been enjoying this game lately, but with the lack of gear I find that I can use and the fact I never even try to bother with trading. Think I would be having a lot more fun if I was in a guild of friends where we could trade shit with each other. I'm a 76 duelist on domination so if anyone is playing there look me up sometime, Nulolanx on PoE and Nulolan on steam.

I actually just ran the unique vaal pyrmanid solo and didn't get a single damn thing I can use minus a Chaos orb and a few lesser orbs lol.

Zefah · Nov 17, 2013

I haven't played since many months ago, but did they ever add an option for floating damage numbers?

Hateyou · Nov 17, 2013

Zefah_sl said:
I haven't played since many months ago, but did they ever add an option for floating damage numbers?

Not yet, though they said they were going to add it in the future. Not sure how long you've played but there are life bars now, didn't used to have them.

Hateyou · Nov 17, 2013

Nulolan_sl said:
I really been enjoying this game lately, but with the lack of gear I find that I can use and the fact I never even try to bother with trading. Think I would be having a lot more fun if I was in a guild of friends where we could trade shit with each other. I'm a 76 duelist on domination so if anyone is playing there look me up sometime, Nulolanx on PoE and Nulolan on steam.

I actually just ran the unique vaal pyrmanid solo and didn't get a single damn thing I can use minus a Chaos orb and a few lesser orbs lol.

That's pretty much maps. I've ran hundreds and never really found anything. Banked some rares and uniques from maps but nothing crazy.

Dabamf_sl · Nov 17, 2013

I just quit yesterday for a different reason: I can't seem to play games casually. 13 years after I played EQ addictively, I still respond that way to video games.

Anyway, for those still playing, you should SERIOUSLY consider a cast-on-crit discharge build. They are just insane. Look at the scion forum for "ceaseless discharger". Single target damage is garbage, but it will clear packs in a full group in under 2 seconds. Basically you run a modified crit knives build and throw gmp spectral throw linked with cast on crit discharge, wearing volls protector. You gain power charges from volls on crits and once one or two knives crit, you discharge, which itself can crit and instantly give you full power charges, which makes your knives more likely to crit which causes more dischargers. Basically once you discharge once, you don't stop until nearly all mobs are dead.

The build is seriously OP and even more fun than the original krip discharge build. Yet I've only seen 2 other people with it.

If you are on normal and have volls devotion also, good god I can't imagine how insane it is.

It also only requires a 4L and doesn't take much gear to be good. I was running with pretty scrub self found gear on the new standard league.

Nulolan · Nov 17, 2013

I actually have two voll's protectors in the bank may just have to try that out, on domination league though.

Jim Russel · Nov 17, 2013

Dabamf_sl said:
I just quit yesterday for a different reason: I can't seem to play games casually. 13 years after I played EQ addictively, I still respond that way to video games.

Anyway, for those still playing, you should SERIOUSLY consider a cast-on-crit discharge build. They are just insane. Look at the scion forum for "ceaseless discharger". Single target damage is garbage, but it will clear packs in a full group in under 2 seconds. Basically you run a modified crit knives build and throw gmp spectral throw linked with cast on crit discharge, wearing volls protector. You gain power charges from volls on crits and once one or two knives crit, you discharge, which itself can crit and instantly give you full power charges, which makes your knives more likely to crit which causes more dischargers. Basically once you discharge once, you don't stop until nearly all mobs are dead.

The build is seriously OP and even more fun than the original krip discharge build. Yet I've only seen 2 other people with it.

If you are on normal and have volls devotion also, good god I can't imagine how insane it is.

It also only requires a 4L and doesn't take much gear to be good. I was running with pretty scrub self found gear on the new standard league.

"ANYONE can make an effective AOE build and I feel everyone focuses on that too much. Single target is typically the most important part of a build imo."
--AlkaizerX (#7 on Nemesis League)

I'm running his build at the moment, liking it a lot.
Forum - Marauder - Alkaizer Nemesis 89 Marauder Solo - Path of Exile

IGN on nemesis: Rhygerian

I'm level 66 at the moment, so if anyone needs some run-throughs let me know.

Pyros · Nov 17, 2013

Well generally you want strong aoe since the clear speed comes from that. Single target is nice and can also speed up stuff a lot, but it can be done with inferior choices. It's especially irrelevant if you play melee, as melees can pull retarded single target DPS with any unsupported skill that's designed for it. Worst case scenario you level Viper Strike+Increased Duration+Faster Attacks on your offhand(a fast weapon, stats/quality don't matter but +attackspeed% is nice and +melee +gem level mods are insane) and swap to that to stack it to 4 on a boss when needed, shit tears apart most stuff even if you have 0actual damage stats(being melee range though it's not practical if you're not using a melee build).

The single target vs aoe is only an issue when you're using spells, as there's no real good single target spell so you need certain stuff to get a decent one and that generally requires supports and shit. Attack based builds can do fine with very little since a lot of their damage comes from their passives/items, at least a larger proportion than from their gems while for spells it's the opposite.

On the cast on crit build, a friend made one and said it was killing really quickly, until he died because he proced too many spells at once and froze for like a second and when he unfroze he was dead from Corrupted Blood. Granted he should have been running life leech which I think he didn't have at the time yet, but the fact it drops your FPS to shit once it procs a salvo is a big deal. Discharge might not be as bad though, he was using Arc+Fireball or something like that.

Joeboo · Nov 17, 2013

I probably sound like a broken record, but play Hardcore/Nemesis. You don't get attached to gear nearly as much. And banking nice gear that you find for other specs is actually useful as you will inevitably die and then get to try out that spec next time around. You don't worry nearly as much about trying to get that perfect roll on an item.

I was pretty much done with PoE like 6 or 7 months ago, bored with maps in normal mode, then I decided to try hardcore and the game has never been boring since. Love it.

Vorph · Nov 17, 2013

Dabamf_sl said:
The build is seriously OP and even more fun than the original krip discharge build. Yet I've only seen 2 other people with it.

If you are on normal and have volls devotion also, good god I can't imagine how insane it is.

It also only requires a 4L and doesn't take much gear to be good. I was running with pretty scrub self found gear on the new standard league.

4L means no life leech, 5L is the bare minimum if you actually like living. But yes, it's a great build if you have the gear for it. I used it before switching to the trapper, which kills a little slower but has the massive advantage of giving no fucks about reflect.

joeboo_sl said:
I probably sound like a broken record, but play Hardcore/Nemesis.

I'll get on that right after they fix desync completely (read: never).

Dabamf_sl · Nov 18, 2013

Err yea I should have said don't use that build on hardcore. By the time you see reflect, your knives are flying and you start running away hoping to get far enough that the cascade of discharges that are about to happen in .5 seconds don't hit anything. That strategy works like 30% of the time

Vorph · Nov 18, 2013

Yeah, but dying sucks on normal too, losing two bubbles per death when you're 70+ really stings.

Course, I have 1892hp on my current character at 72, so I'm really not one to talk about playing conservatively.

Pyros · Nov 18, 2013

On the gearing issues, I think one issue is the expectation that you should be able to get a 6L by endgame. In many cases though, you're never going to get a 6L unless you play till 95+, by your own means and without massive RNG luck. You're not expected to have one, it definitely helps but isn't a requirement. You are however expected to get a 5L by 70ish to run enough supports, but that is entirely doable, unless you're trying to get a 5L unique.

I find that getting a normal 5L is actually very simple. First thing first, don't fuse it. You don't have to fuse it, fuses are for 6L(or for fusing 4Ls for your other slots/3L on weapons). You'll need a stupid amount of 6L too so don't bother until you have like 1000-1500 of them which would take months and months of playing if you don't play 16hours a day like most streamers do(on top of being able to sell all their shit easily via streams etc). Buy a white 5L. The ilvl shouldn't be too high so the value isn't too high. It's not THAT expensive, at least on hardcore/nemesis if it's not a ilvl 70+ 5L white. Grab a 50-60 5L of the right type, you're gonna have to pay half an exalt to an exalt. Then buy alterations. Don't try to chaos it. That's just way too fucking random and while you might get a really good item, you could use 100chaos and get nothing. Instead use transmute+alts+augments to roll 2 good mods, then regal it. Don't look for perfect rolls, and if the regal is even half decent, don't bother rolling it further. You really only need life + 1 resist roll, which you can get off the alts alone anyway. It doesn't have to be the perfect chest, it's already a 5L which boosts your character's efficiency a lot.

So in the end it'll probably cost you maybe 2exalts or so to roll a decent 5L. Which isn't such a bad price, once you're 60+ you can do chaos recipe even without trading with people. You should also look into selling shit. Make a forum post, drag and drop all your shit from a tab in your stash, put a price on it that can be read on poexyz and that's it. Then it's just a matter of telling people to fuck off if they try to haggle and meeting others in act1normal with the item the rest of the time, it's fairly easy. I keep selling decent items without much effort cause I don't try to get the most I can get out of them, but the minimum. An item can get you 2chaos? Sell it for 1. Better have a chaos than a shitty rare in your stash. Even without it you should get enough currency to afford it on your first char by 75 or so.

But yeah in the end their systems are designed around the fact you can trade, they're not meant for self found at all. That's a bit shitty I guess, but that's the type of game it is when it's online only and stuff. Funny enough, Diablo3 might end up being a better arpg for solo players once they patch the expansion and the item changes.

Ryoz · Nov 18, 2013

I must echo, the game is a lot more fun on hardcore. I get why people play standard, but hardcore separates the men from the boys. There's also rng though due to random desync but honestly it's not that often. Plus once you build a nice stash of gear orbs and gems death isn't even a huge deal.

Currently farming act 1 cruel... 40 ranger using a spec throw build.

Nulolan · Nov 18, 2013

Getting a 5L is the thing I need most now, pretty sad at 77 still using a 4L chest. Actually I been trying to fuse this rare astral that I have.. listening to your advise I'll just save up and try to find a different 5L chest for sale.

I do have quite a few things in bank to sell, so I should stop slacking and start trying to move some of that shit. Games still very new to me though and its a little daunting trying to figure how exactly to trade and what everything goes for multiple currencies make it that much harder. There's still so much I have to get my duelist, hell I'm still using a level 1 unique helm because I can't do with out the +40 to all resists. I do have a tab full of gems, a couple dozen quality gems, 2 tabs of unique's so I'm sure If I unload all this I would be able to gear up significantly better.

On another note, I solo'd the unique crypt last night and I brought devouring totem and detonate dead but even with spamming them it seemed they didn't help much. Do those skills effect more corpses at a higher level ? I google'd it but didn't seem that it would be more effective at a higher level from what I read. The last fight was still so crazy full of mobs beats me how the boss even went down lol.

EDIT: Thought about hardcore but with the lag I just think it would be so frustrating.

Pyros · Nov 18, 2013

They only blow one corpse, but a quality detonate dead gets iirc something like 3 or 4% cast speed PER quality %, so a high quality one casts insanely fast, put on a spell totem with faster casting and it'll destroy these corpses much faster than necros can rez them.

On 5Ling, I guess if you do have a 6 sockets with good stats, it's about the same in terms of cost to 5L it, statistically(average tends to be about 120fusing, can generally get 2 fusing per chaos, 20ish chaos per exalts, so that's 3exalts, but you do get a lot better stats than what you'd get from a single regal). If it's a 5sockets though it's probably not worth it at all unless it's like super godlike stats, but then you'd probably want to 6S it first, just in case you get lucky and 6L. Otherwise the white thing is better, but I'm not too informed about softcore prices and shit looked expensive as fuck when I played it for a bit, so it might be more that what I mentionned. Really it's just a matter of doing the math at your currency exchange and figuring if with the equivalent of 120fuses you could get a 5L and a bunch of alts, which I think is always going to be yes unless it's an astral plate.

Also to note, they added a recipe currently that lets you roll more perfect weapons more easily, even though it's still pretty RNG. The recipe is like weapon+transmute+flask and the weapon will become magic with a damage roll corresponding to the flask(granite for physical, topaz for lightning etc). If there is already a roll of that type on the weapon, then it will instead generate the next higher tier of that roll. Other stats are wiped though, so it's purely for crafting, but it means you can throw flasks at a high ilvl weapon to guarantee a high IPD roll(or an elem roll I guess), then augment and hope you get a good suffix, then regal that shit. It's still RNG based since you can augment crap then you have to reroll it, but it makes it easier to roll the highest tier of IPD or lightning damage on a weapon you want to craft.

There's still 3 recipes undiscovered I believe, one of which makes white sockets in weapons.

Vorph · Nov 18, 2013

Pyros_sl said:
On the gearing issues,

I do agree with most of that (would never regal anything below ilvl77 though) but while being technically correct you also sum up most everything I think makes PoE's RNG system shitty and boring. The actual items design is mostly fine, it's just the layers of RNG upon RNG--each with miniscule chances of success--that ruin it.

This thread(OP and deteego's response mainly) is the best summary I've seen of the game's problems, and shockingly there wasn't even much white knight/fanboi backlash in it. I particularly like the spoilered comment about diamond supporter uniques in the OP.

Ryoz_sl said:
There's also rng though due to random desync but honestly it's not that often.

Run up to doorway to a room full of mobs, and stand completely still just outside it. Throw 5-6 cycles of my lightning->fire->cold snap trap sequence through the door to kill everything inside. At cycle 3 or 4, desync hits and suddenly I'm inside the room in the middle of a pack of mobs--which should all be dead, but they aren't due to desync as well.

Clearing library for xp, this happens 4-5 times per run.

My previous build (Spectral Throw/Discharge) was just as bad. Desync several times per map while discharging, desync constantly if I have the audacity to actually use my Whirling Blades gem for travel speed purposes. Replace Spectral Throw with Cyclone for damage and it desyncs even worse than Whirling Blades.

Obviously I don't die every time, but ... it only takes once if you're on hardcore.

Ryoz · Nov 18, 2013

How You Will Die In Nemesis - YouTube

A solid vid from Kripp about affixes that will fuck your day in Nemesis.

If you jumped right into nemesis before beating the game in standard you will want to check this out... good for everyone that doesn't know the ins and outs of all the affixes tbh.

Pyros · Nov 18, 2013

Vorph_sl said:
I particularly like the spoilered comment about diamond supporter uniques in the OP.

I hope they do a balance pass at some point and buff the shitty uniques. I think even while keeping the community uniques idea you could make them good simply by giving them better stats. There's quite a lot of really shitty ones, and some that are very very build specific but good at that, for example the helm that was added last patch that makes your spell damage also affects attack damage is insanely good for wander builds, but that's pretty much it unless you want to do a super glass canon build then you can use doedre's tenure gloves for 50% physical and possibly other gear. Like if the item concept is way too weird and completely pointless, just make the item overall good for the slot(give it health+resist most of the time) so that it's akin to finding a decent rare with a unique mod instead of reflect 1damage or accuracy+light modifiers.

On the desync thing and being moved in rooms, basically always cast stuff with hold position. If you click a mob that's desynced your char will walk to it so it's in line of sight server side but not client side, so you don't see yourself moving but then you're inside the room, and the server rejects the casts because the client is sending wrong position information. It's dumb as fuck and it's especially bad as a melee. Whirling Blades otherwise works alright imo, but if you try to WB through a door or close to an obstacle, you'll generally desync cause your server position was slightly off and you actually hit the wall which interupts your WB, but on your client it didn't. And then you rubberband like a motherfucker.

I've played hardcore almost exclusively and as long as you know what causes desyncs and why it does, you can easily play around it and never really run into an issue. It does force you to think about what you're doing though and if you forget you can die. Generally though a lot of desync deaths are due to people playing like idiots which puts them in a live or die situation that will make any sort of desync fatal and since they panic they'll forget about the simple things like don't whirling through a door and die. Then fuck you desync etc, but if you don't play like an idiot in the first place, it doesn't happen very often. It is however slower to take everything safe.

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