Path of Exile

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Bubbles

Bubbles

2022 Asshat Award Winner
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Chris is the worst thing that has happened to PoE in the past 3 years or so

this is probably the only way to bring back massive amount of players. Players would put up with shit league mechanics, mobs that will one shot, idiotic flasks and mana usage and massive grinds if they had AH-esque trade, something like this

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Caeden

Caeden

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Byr said:
Did you even to stop to think why it took 'years' in D2? Maybe the fact that your trading was limited to spamming a channel with a max of 40 people in it? Or the rare unique being the main trading currency even once you finally found someone selling the item you wanted? Once D2JSP was out with a better trading system and easier to use currency, people were making perfect items/rolled characters inside the first month every single ladder season The big obstacle was never the rarity of the items, they were in fact rather common, it was the trading system used to acquire them.
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To be honest, I have said I barely remember it. I also think I used to play and only trade with my friends in the dorm, so it was probably some self-imposed SSF.

That said you can just tune the drop rates. These games are literally slot machines. Make the necessary adjustments.
 
Caeden

Caeden

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Poe2 is not going to be the big bright new engine people expect. It’s just really really good polish on top of this engine. Maybe I’m wrong but everything they’ve said sounds like it’s more like a December xpac than a truely new game.
 
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dizzie

dizzie

Triggered Happy
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Reddit's on fire at the moment. People are demanding you don't air any grievances you have as it's so toxic, must be fucking nightmare for the mods.

Byr said:
Its completely useless information when the hit that killed you was for 750 of your 7k life pool and part of a lot of hits in quick succession. Even worse is thats a worse player experience than not knowing at all. 'Hey, were going to show you the kill shot but not what you actually want to know, what killed you.' The PoE playerbase can't even handle skills getting nerfed, to think this would go over well just shows a complete lack of foresight.
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You're probably right that it wouldn't go over well with some players if you only offered them that titbit of death information. The problem is that some players are demanding and GGG might see coding it in as a step towards demands for full combat parsing which is something I don't agree with in a (mostly) solo arpg.

The death information is still useful for players, and particularly new players. These people who are just starting out have to face Merveil in act 1, they don't know about sapphire rings or resists, but if a death screen states that you've died of cold, then you'd probably put 2 and 2 together and maybe equip something appropriate.

There's nothing wrong with it from a performance perspective, it doesn't require anything from them except a small snippet of code and a UI feature to make a box with some text inside.

But it's all moot anyway as Chris wouldn't allow it.
 
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Slaanesh69

Slaanesh69

Millie's Staff Member
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krismunich said:
they made it clear several times that two things although possible will never be implemented in the western client: auction house/async trading and combat logs. (afaik both are available in the chinese client, btw). Reasons were the usual "feel the weight" and "socializing as fundament of the game" statements from the man himself. (source: several r/poe and POE forum posts, easily searchable).

Trading and especially currency trading has been a nightmare in this league.
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Socializing is my favorite argument.

Cut and paste message. Join team. Port to hideout. Wait for trade window. Inspect item. Trade. Whisper "Thanks!". Leave group. Port home.

So socialization, much wow.

To the point, I used to hate trading, but nowadays I just raise a couple of hundred chaos and buy cheaper items to outfit my current build. I ain't pushing for a 10+ ex build or anything, although most leagues I naturally drop 2-8 Ex. I am at 2 so far. I typically pick items in the middle of the list and USUALLY don't have too much trouble getting a response. That being said, I do not trade for currency or alch priced items.

And I never sell anything, because I like to PLAY PoE, not Trade Simulator. Maybe in 15 more leagues I will be a master trader, because for many, many years I just played self-imposed SSF and refused to trade.
 
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Borzak

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
25,464
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dizzie said:
Reddit's on fire at the moment. People are demanding you don't air any grievances you have as it's so toxic, must be fucking nightmare for the mods.



You're probably right that it wouldn't go over well with some players if you only offered them that titbit of death information. The problem is that some players are demanding and GGG might see coding it in as a step towards demands for full combat parsing which is something I don't agree with in a (mostly) solo arpg.

The death information is still useful for players, and particularly new players. These people who are just starting out have to face Merveil in act 1, they don't know about sapphire rings or resists, but if a death screen states that you've died of cold, then you'd probably put 2 and 2 together and maybe equip something appropriate.

There's nothing wrong with it from a performance perspective, it doesn't require anything from them except a small snippet of code and a UI feature to make a box with some text inside.

But it's all moot anyway as Chris wouldn't allow it.
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Looked the other day and question was what question would you ask Chris? Answered none. Actions speek louder than words or manifestos. Didn't matter what his answer would have been. The Chris huggers didn't care for it lol.
 
Byr

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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dizzie said:
You're probably right that it wouldn't go over well with some players if you only offered them that titbit of death information. The problem is that some players are demanding and GGG might see coding it in as a step towards demands for full combat parsing which is something I don't agree with in a (mostly) solo arpg.

The death information is still useful for players, and particularly new players. These people who are just starting out have to face Merveil in act 1, they don't know about sapphire rings or resists, but if a death screen states that you've died of cold, then you'd probably put 2 and 2 together and maybe equip something appropriate.

There's nothing wrong with it from a performance perspective, it doesn't require anything from them except a small snippet of code and a UI feature to make a box with some text inside.

But it's all moot anyway as Chris wouldn't allow it.
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The part I mainly have a problem with is the fact its a slippery slope. People may be clamoring to see the kill shot but its not what they really care about, they want to see why they died and their demands won't stop at the last hit once it fails to answer that question a lot of the time. Even that new player will eventually become more experienced, having been told what killed them all along the way, and will get to the point where its a coin flip whether the reason they died is actually displayed or not. There's no path here that ends in a satisfactory experience for the player.
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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There is only one way to have Chris finally realize and change his mind. Dont fucking play.

We can bitch till were red in the face but actions speak louder than words. If you disagree with the direction of this game, dont play. Thats the only way that will let Chris know that his ideas and vision sucks. Afterall its his game and his vision.
 
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Bubbles

Bubbles

2022 Asshat Award Winner
<Bronze Donator>
45,681
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mkopec said:
There is only one way to have Chris finally realize and change his mind. Dont fucking play.

We can bitch till were red in the face but actions speak louder than words. If you disagree with the direction of this game, dont play. Thats the only way that will let Chris know that his ideas and vision sucks. Afterall its his game and his vision.
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After selling majority of GGG and probably still siphoning a few good million in dividends every year, he's set for life and doesn't give a fuck any more. He'll probably run PoE to the ground simply on principle rather than give in. And then he'll somehow find a way to blame the players
 
Lightning Lord Rule

Il_Duce Lightning Lord Rule

Lightning Fast
<Charitable Administrator>
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mkopec said:
There is only one way to have Chris finally realize and change his mind. Dont fucking play.

We can bitch till were red in the face but actions speak louder than words. If you disagree with the direction of this game, dont play. Thats the only way that will let Chris know that his ideas and vision sucks. Afterall its his game and his vision.
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This. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. GGG will listen when people stop caring/playing, and not before.
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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Bubbles said:
After selling majority of GGG and probably still siphoning a few good million in dividends every year, he's set for life and doesn't give a fuck any more. He'll probably run PoE to the ground simply on principle rather than give in. And then he'll somehow find a way to blame the players
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He still has to answer to his Chinese overlords. It might be his game, but not his company anymore.
 
Slaanesh69

Slaanesh69

Millie's Staff Member
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Byr said:
You illustrated the problem yourself. Usually when you are wondering what hit you, its not because you got crit, its because a bunch of shit all hitting you at once and very quickly. Imagine the experience from a players point of view when they get hit for 6k damage from something but its the skeleton that hit you for 750 that killed you. Thats something that a 'this hit kill you' death log will tell you nothing about and you'll still have a bad experience with a vast majority of the time. To have a true death log for it, you need the servers to have a running log of everything that hits you which is an incredible strain on the server given the large playerbase at league launches. It doesn't matter if the log is 15 seconds long or 2 seconds, its still logging everything that happens to your character at all times because you can die at any time. The only difference there is what it displays to you once you've died. The 'this hit killed you' log is just a bandaid on the problem, its not a solution, and you'll still wind up here complaining its not more in depth after it tells you little about most of your deaths.

Leon made a joke about 'small indie company' and while they might not be that small indie company anymore, the game still runs off the engine that was designed by 3 guys in a garage office who had never made a video game before. A real solution to this problem will have to wait for the new engine in PoE2.
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Sometimes I would like to know if I died because of a million cuts or some big hit. Was it a bad luck cascade of crits, was it a shock followed by a big crit? Was it just me being stupid and missing my anti-freeze after opening a chest?

It would be easier to min/max your defenses if you had an idea of what is usually killing you.

More often than not, I am sitting there with my mouth open and my hands in the air as I was 7,000 hps and then zero and no idea wtf just happened. When I am doing stupid shit and die it is one thing, when I am just tooling around killing shit and just go kersplat is another.

I also understand that latency and ping comes into play, because I have seen times where I am sure I am ok but, nope, dead.

So all that being combined and I kinda see why it may be impossible to really solve this issue.
 
Caeden

Caeden

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I might try Grim Dawn again, but let’s not act like PoE has any real competition. And let’s not forget this is probably still the single greatest arpg ever made.
 
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K

k^M

Blackwing Lair Raider
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I really don't get why the chinese version has some of those QoL things but the US doesn't. It'd be a license to print money for people to drop x_dollars per league for a follower ala D3 things that they can customize that picks up currency and shit.
 
LiquidDeath

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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Byr said:
The part I mainly have a problem with is the fact its a slippery slope. People may be clamoring to see the kill shot but its not what they really care about, they want to see why they died and their demands won't stop at the last hit once it fails to answer that question a lot of the time. Even that new player will eventually become more experienced, having been told what killed them all along the way, and will get to the point where its a coin flip whether the reason they died is actually displayed or not. There's no path here that ends in a satisfactory experience for the player.
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Oh just fuck all the way off.

First, you are allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good in this situation. I don't give a fuck what kind of slippery slope you think it creates, this is information that should be available to the player to help learn and adjust. It doesn't matter whether you were biting off more than you could chew and you knew it.

This all stems from the completely avoidable, self-inflicted decisions GGG made with respect to turning monsters into psuedo-players. Instead of tightly controlling monster power and using it to regulate player power and clear speed they decided to give monsters the ability to crit and to have auras and stack auras which might not be a problem but they also don't control map mods very well either and all these poorly controlled modifiers interact in ways that are unknowable to the devs, and so also to the players. So fuck you for covering for GGG's terrible, "whoa is me, we can't spend all that money on logging servers" bullshit when the need for that logging stems from their bad design in the first place.
 
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Byr

Byr

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LiquidDeath said:
Oh just fuck all the way off.

First, you are allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good in this situation. I don't give a fuck what kind of slippery slope you think it creates, this is information that should be available to the player to help learn and adjust. It doesn't matter whether you were biting off more than you could chew and you knew it.
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Good isn't a tool that fails to fulfill its purpose 50%+ of the time. A last hit marker isn't even a functional tool in allowing players to know what killed them most of the time, funnily enough including a lot of the stuff you went on to complain about.
 
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LiquidDeath

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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Byr said:
Good isn't a tool that fails to fulfill its purpose 50%+ of the time. A last hit marker isn't even a functional tool in allowing players to know what killed them most of the time, funnily enough including a lot of the stuff you went on to complain about.
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If it is good enough to be in the Chinese client, then it is good enough to be in the Global client.

And again, this problem is a direct result of the poor design choices made by GGG so if they aren't going to fix those problems then it is on them to provide some kind of way for the players to understand and adapt.
 
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Byr

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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LiquidDeath said:
If it is good enough to be in the Chinese client, then it is good enough to be in the Global client.

And again, this problem is a direct result of the poor design choices made by GGG so if they aren't going to fix those problems then it is on them to provide some kind of way for the players to understand and adapt.
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Funnily enough the feedback I've seen from the Chinese players, and the western players who played over there for the two races, is that they barely pay attention to it because it doesn't tell you anything.

Capture.PNG
 
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Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
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I think the log we COULD get and the log people want are vastly different things. I'd love knowing how exactly I died but if they're going to dump millions more on server infrastructure just for that at this point I'd say pass. As Chris said the Chinese client basically says the last hit which outside of omega oneshots doesn't really help much because a lot of RIPs are do to like 15 things happening at once. We'd just have a bunch of posts like "HOW DID A CRAB KILL MY LVL 96 8 ENDURANCE CHARGE JUGG?" when really they got corpse exploded then three crabs shot them.
 
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