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Khane

Khane

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Are there any clever ways to not remove leech instances at full life without being a slayer and/or using petrified blood?

Immortal Ambition is a thought but I was wondering if there was some other way without having to change up my gearing strategy for ES.
 
Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
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Khane said:
Are there any clever ways to not remove leech instances at full life without being a slayer and/or using petrified blood?

Immortal Ambition is a thought but I was wondering if there was some other way without having to change up my gearing strategy for ES.
Click to expand...
Offering to the Serpent gloves. They can actually be quite good and have random Synth implicits.
 
Aazrael

Aazrael

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Family member helped me with Uber Lab, he had a chest that costed 150 Div to craft, 40 div worth of summons, 15 div animated guardian. Like I said, no normal people can be on this level. I got 1 Div worth of gear right now!

PoE nerds are crazy.

His chest, it says nothing to me, I would probably have vendored it.

Skärmbild 2023-12-18 210646.png
 
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Khane

Khane

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Xevy said:
Offering to the Serpent gloves. They can actually be quite good and have random Synth implicits.
Click to expand...

I think the less maximum total recovery per leech is a non-starter on these. I need the leech instances to last longer than my reflected poison instances so I can use Golden Rule + Tainted Pact and self poison as an "immortality" mechanism. I believe I'll run into suicide scenarios where leech instance runs out before poison does and I insta kill myself with these unfortunately.

The idea is essentially this:

Pathfinder Poison Forbidden Rite.
Use the "15% of damage taken from hits is leeched as life during effect" crafted flask mod. Forbidden Rite procs this.
Use Golden Rule to reflect my poisons back to me, triggering Tainted Pact's "Taking Chaos Damage over Time heals you instead while leeching life"
Use Icefang Orbit + Winterweave to self chill for action speed.
Add in Forbidden Taste as a life flask with no downside and additional big heals from flask effect on its chaos damage over time "downside".

I can remove Forbidden Taste and use Petrified Blood to never lose my leech instances, but if I used those gloves, as I understand it, my leech instances will go from lasting ~5seconds to lasting ~2.5seconds. Making sure I forbidden rite to proc the flask effect every 5s isnt a big deal. Cut that 2.5s and I'm pretty sure I'd be in for a bad time.

I've been racking my brain trying to figure out a way to do this in budget gear (since the uniques needed are all dirt cheap) as an early league blaster in the future. But I think the only way to really do it is to go Ascendant with PF and Slayer. Petrified Blood is just a french fry when ya shoulda pizza'd thing at lower gear levels. Its one shot city.

Forbidden Rite is just a really cool skill and if you stack enough max life (or max ES with the trans version) it has another cool effect of allowing you to use CWDT to do things like trigger your curses with no downside and at max level.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Aazrael said:
Family member helped me with Uber Lab, he had a chest that costed 150 Div to craft, 40 div worth of summons, 15 div animated guardian. Like I said, no normal people can be on this level. I got 1 Div worth of gear right now!

PoE nerds are crazy.

His chest, it says nothing to me, I would probably have vendored it.

View attachment 504788
Click to expand...

You would have vendored a White socket 6L with all T1 rolls? Come on now...
 
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AladainAF

AladainAF

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Aazrael said:
Is Uber lab always this fucking hard? Failed two times in a row. First time I burned up after 1st boss fight. Second time I got past it and got totally owned by spinny bois trying to hit 2 switches amongst fire traps. I really hate Lab and now even more so. Guess I'll come back in 10 levels when I'm 90+.
Click to expand...

Uber lab is a heck of a challenge for a new player. Go to poelab.com and check the maps for uber lab. Sometimes if you go when the day switches, the map will not be correct, but the map will run within a few hours of a new day and will be correct.

I would suggest going after Darkshrines, one of them is 50% less damage from traps (which affects the entire lab) and the second is disable traps in the final trial room. That makes the final fight much more manageable. With that said though, those are not guarantees to get. I personally like getting the darkshrines for uber lab when I run it.
 
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Vorph

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Khane said:
So when the season launched you could get up to like 18% from I think any lab. They hotfixed/patched that and I think you won't ever see more than 4% now from non-uber.

When was it that you saw the 15%? Was it near league start?
Click to expand...
Last Wed or Thurs I think? I didn't start the league until Tuesday.
 
Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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AladainAF said:
Raw drops. I've gotten a fair amount. You can also get them by selling quality skill gems. I will pick up >= 15% quality support gems as well.

I'm streaming again in the FoH discord if you want to see results of farming. I cannot stress enough that this is a really cheap farm. You just find out exactly why they call themselves "Grinding Gear" games. You're gonna be grinding the shit out of maps for monies. But that's kinda the nature of ARPGs really. It's all a grindfest.
Click to expand...
Shit man, it looks almost like you're playing a completely different game than I am. You get the amount of drops in about 3 maps that I've gotten in 50 hours.
 
Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Khane said:
You would have vendored a White socket 6L with all T1 rolls? Come on now...
Click to expand...
Outside of the the fact that it's 6L with white sockets and the spell suppression, I would have no idea that's worth anything.

Speaking of white sockets, I got a Tabula Rasa and despite there being a billion of em listed for 10c, even putting it at 15c I get like 50 messages. I ignored them all and jacked the price way up. I can't figure out the trading in this game.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Xevy said:
Offering to the Serpent gloves. They can actually be quite good and have random Synth implicits.
Click to expand...

I did just test these since they are only 1c and unfortunately yep, cuts the leech timer from 5s to 2.5s. Too bad, woulda been a nice way to maintain.
 
Thregin

Thregin

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I kinda wanna try doing conqueror maps+invitations but expedition is hard to drop

 
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Lightning Lord Rule

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Khane said:
I think the less maximum total recovery per leech is a non-starter on these. I need the leech instances to last longer than my reflected poison instances so I can use Golden Rule + Tainted Pact and self poison as an "immortality" mechanism. I believe I'll run into suicide scenarios where leech instance runs out before poison does and I insta kill myself with these unfortunately.

The idea is essentially this:

Pathfinder Poison Forbidden Rite.
Use the "15% of damage taken from hits is leeched as life during effect" crafted flask mod. Forbidden Rite procs this.
Use Golden Rule to reflect my poisons back to me, triggering Tainted Pact's "Taking Chaos Damage over Time heals you instead while leeching life"
Use Icefang Orbit + Winterweave to self chill for action speed.
Add in Forbidden Taste as a life flask with no downside and additional big heals from flask effect on its chaos damage over time "downside".

I can remove Forbidden Taste and use Petrified Blood to never lose my leech instances, but if I used those gloves, as I understand it, my leech instances will go from lasting ~5seconds to lasting ~2.5seconds. Making sure I forbidden rite to proc the flask effect every 5s isnt a big deal. Cut that 2.5s and I'm pretty sure I'd be in for a bad time.

I've been racking my brain trying to figure out a way to do this in budget gear (since the uniques needed are all dirt cheap) as an early league blaster in the future. But I think the only way to really do it is to go Ascendant with PF and Slayer. Petrified Blood is just a french fry when ya shoulda pizza'd thing at lower gear levels. Its one shot city.

Forbidden Rite is just a really cool skill and if you stack enough max life (or max ES with the trans version) it has another cool effect of allowing you to use CWDT to do things like trigger your curses with no downside and at max level.
Click to expand...
I believe that mod on Offering to the Serpent only affects the cap, not the duration of leech instances. As in, your leech cap goes from say 2000 life/s to 1000 life/s, not from 5s to 2.5s. Also, I dimly remember that leech instances are 10 seconds if not filled? I could be hallucinating that one though.
But if you have different info...

EDIT: got interrupted posting this, so time difference for the lose. Interesting that it works that way.

EDIT2: maybe Impossible Escape to Vaal Pact to pick up vitality void + offering to the serpent? It would put you back over the 2.5secs which is your minimum, right? Or path to taste for blood and get the leech mastery that increases max? No idea if that's worth it.
 
Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
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Lightning Lord Rule said:
I believe that mod on Offering to the Serpent only affects the cap, not the duration of leech instances. As in, your leech cap goes from say 2000 life/s to 1000 life/s, not from 5s to 2.5s. Also, I dimly remember that leech instances are 10 seconds if not filled? I could be hallucinating that one though.
But if you have different info...

EDIT: got interrupted posting this, so time difference for the lose. Interesting that it works that way.

EDIT2: maybe Impossible Escape to Vaal Pact to pick up vitality void + offering to the serpent? It would put you back over the 2.5secs which is your minimum, right? Or path to taste for blood and get the leech mastery that increases max? No idea if that's worth it.
Click to expand...
I used to use them with my Chieftain when old Chieftain ascendancy had totem leech and they kept me topped off nearly always, but I did at one point TRY and figure out what the fuck the gloves mean.

-There's no number of leeches you're limited to, but it is capped by default at having a leech rate of 20% of your total health active.
-The maximum leech rate refers to the fact that a SINGLE leech instance (one hit) can by default only be worth 10% of your maximum health. That means these gloves just turn that down to 5% meaning you'd need 4 biiiig hits to hit leech cap instead of just 2.
-Leech recovery per second is just that. It makes it so instead of being able to leech 2% of max health per second from A SINGLE leech it can go higher.
-Total Life Recovery Per Leech is the big one (vaal pact modifies this) refers to the TOTAL amount of life you're able to be leeching all leech instances combined. By default this is 20% of your maximum health over one second. Vaal Pact doubles this making you able to leech 40% of your total life per second from all leeching instances.

So what the gloves actually do is just decrease the amount you're recovering PER INSTANCE of leech and not the total amount being leeched.
 
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AladainAF

AladainAF

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Gravel said:
Shit man, it looks almost like you're playing a completely different game than I am. You get the amount of drops in about 3 maps that I've gotten in 50 hours.
Click to expand...

But I'm doing nothing special. All I have is the atlas tree, and 3 scarabs, one sac fragment and a alcch/vaaled T3 map.

I'm not even going that fast. Roughly 33 divine since I went to bed.

1702938480602.png
 
Lightning Lord Rule

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Xevy said:
I used to use them with my Chieftain when old Chieftain ascendancy had totem leech and they kept me topped off nearly always, but I did at one point TRY and figure out what the fuck the gloves mean.

-There's no number of leeches you're limited to, but it is capped by default at having a leech rate of 20% of your total health active.
-The maximum leech rate refers to the fact that a SINGLE leech instance (one hit) can by default only be worth 10% of your maximum health. That means these gloves just turn that down to 5% meaning you'd need 4 biiiig hits to hit leech cap instead of just 2.
-Leech recovery per second is just that. It makes it so instead of being able to leech 2% of max health per second from A SINGLE leech it can go higher.
-Total Life Recovery Per Leech is the big one (vaal pact modifies this) refers to the TOTAL amount of life you're able to be leeching all leech instances combined. By default this is 20% of your maximum health over one second. Vaal Pact doubles this making you able to leech 40% of your total life per second from all leeching instances.

So what the gloves actually do is just decrease the amount you're recovering PER INSTANCE of leech and not the total amount being leeched.
Click to expand...
Ya, all of that I remember when I've researched leech before and when I played it in the past and was fucking around in POB. I never saw anything that mentioned the duration being effected and it's not in POB, but apparently that's the case based on what Khane is saying? Wouldn't be the first time there's some non-intuitive side effect to a mechanic that doesn't get noticed until a niche use exposes it.
 
Xevy

Xevy

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From the wiki:

The duration of a life leech instance is defined by the maximum recovery per life leech, divided by the default leech rate of 2% of maximum life per second. By default, the maximum amount of life leeched per instance is 10% of a character's maximum Life, resulting in a maximum duration of 5 seconds.

So he's right. It is cutting the duration of leech effects in half. Weird. Good catch.
 
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Lightning Lord Rule

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Xevy said:
From the wiki:

The duration of a life leech instance is defined by the maximum recovery per life leech, divided by the default leech rate of 2% of maximum life per second. By default, the maximum amount of life leeched per instance is 10% of a character's maximum Life, resulting in a maximum duration of 5 seconds.

So he's right. It is cutting the duration of leech effects in half. Weird. Good catch.
Click to expand...
Huh. Ok, then any source of max leech should put him over his threshold of 2.5s, correct? So vitality void, leech mastery max leech, taste for blood, hematophagy, etc. Could impossible escape, anoint, get a blight item for an extra anoint, maybe there's a piece of gear with it that I'm not thinking of? Lots of options, just depends on cost of items and opportunity cost of points and what-not.

EDIT: I bet I know why I thought of 10s leech duration: it's for Slayer with the leech node. It's always been Slayer when I've been playing with it, so I had no reason to look further into it.
 
Xevy

Xevy

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It also said that instant leech effects it by shortening the instant leech portion of the duration. So if you're running leech mastery/claw mastery/instant leech charms you're actually reducing the overall duration of the leech as well.
 
Khane

Khane

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Unfortunately, the only thing that affects that total duration is total maximum recovery mod, which you can only increase via Brutal Fervour (the Slayer ascendancy passive).

That one passive is the ONLY way to counteract the reduced maximum recovery from the gloves because it's the only thing in the game that increases that cap lol. And you would never use those gloves as a Slayer because you get it for "free" without any downsides.

Lame.

Also, leech is so fucking mind warping in this game. It's so hard to figure out and calculate exactly how much leech you're going to have and how fast (or slow) it's going to apply.

Immortal Ambition seems like it is going to be my only "good" option. Which means I'm going to have to switch to an ES gearing setup (and probably switch to Coruscating Elixir + the ES trans version of Forbidden Rite)
 
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Khane

Khane

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Wait a minute... Temporal Chains:

"Recovery effects from leech and flask expire more slowly while recovering the same amount per second of whatever resource they provide. However, other sources of life recovery over a fixed time such as
5px-Lifesprig_inventory_icon.png
Lifesprig,
10px-Doppelg%C3%A4nger_Guise_inventory_icon.png
Doppelgänger Guise, and recoup, are unaffected either by the duration of the recovery or the total recovery."

So... temp chains has 50% effect on players, so it will last 4.40 seconds on me by default if I self curse at gem level 20. I'd have to use Rotblood to curse myself since I can't use shackles of the wretched if I am using the leech gloves. I was planning on scaling curse effect with this build anyway but I won't be able to self chill if I do it this way. I could get it back over 5 seconds this way but now this is starting to feel like... "Is it worth all this" lol.
 
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