Path of Exile
- Thread starter Jim Russel
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Xequecal
Trump's Staff
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Also, Doon Cuebiyari/Shaper's Touch STR-stacking with Ascendant Hierophant + Chieftain is utterly retarded. It works great as a league starter and it scales up immensely well. You get insane EHP, leech AND regen, three totems, the safety of a totem build, and then on top of that the ascendancies give you 30% more damage and 10% increased cast speed. I just spent all of 15 minutes in PoB making a build with 10k life, 4k mana, and a million DPS.
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Jugger looks solid for your one button uber Izaro facetanking build and such, so much defenses shit and damage should be pretty decent. New Tectonic looks great for that too since you can constantly eat end charges for 18% more damage and regain them more or less instantly.
Kiroy
Marine Biologist
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According to the experts and based on the wording, yes. Who know's though, ggg's wording is completely fubar and I have a strong feeling you're right and it's not going to be what it seems. We're in a situation where either the wording is fucked or it's gonna get nerfed. No way it's 45% more damage.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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actually some people are pointing out the wording.
".6s attack time", not attacks/second. so, actually, 1.67attacks/second.
so, if thats true, thats even faster then the 1.2x20%more at 1.44 I was expecting.
Kiroy
Marine Biologist
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Xequecal
Trump's Staff
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It's actually just straight 45% more damage on average if it doesn't double dip. That's not what makes it broken. If it actually double dips through conversions like "elemental damage added as extra chaos" does you can do things like use Pyre + Cold to Fire to convert Glacial Cascade to Fire damage and get 135% more damage from the node, because the 45% more will apply at every conversion step.
Kiroy
Marine Biologist
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More /= increased in poe. the word 'more' in poe describes what you're saying. Increased describes strait up damage like in your first sentence. it's 45% more damage which is why it's broken.
Xequecal
Trump's Staff
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I'm not sure what you mean by this. If the mod doesn't double dip and only applies once, it averages out to 45% more damage (1.45x multiplier) on any build that doesn't do chaos damage naturally. It's just a straight up better version of the old Berserker node, and that's if it doesn't double dip.
If it does double dip in a similar way to how the mods on Shade of Solaris/Incandescent Heart do, then it really will be a 135% more damage node (yes, 2.35x multiplier on your damage) for conversion builds. Right now you can use those two items and convert Glacial Cascade to Fire and get 80% more damage out of them because they apply to the cold damage of GC, then apply to the fire damage again after it's converted.
If this new Trickster thing applies to all damage types sequentially like the current elemental one does then you get 135% more because it will apply to the Physical damage, then to the Cold damage after it's converted to Cold, and then the Fire damage again after the next conversion. Seriously, if this is how it works people will put together builds that easily do 9-figure DPS from converting GC to Fire. 135% more from this, 60% more from perfect Atziri flask, then dual wield Shades of Solaris + Incandescent Heart for another 120% more.
Korrupt
Blackwing Lair Raider
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The wording suggests you will gain it every step of the conversion order - Physical → Lightning → Cold → Fire → Chaos
But who knows what will happen before Friday? Ive got some pre-nerf Pyres in race tabs I've been saving for something like Trickster and this league. Either way even nerfed it will still be incredible unless they completely gut it which wont happen.
Kiroy
Marine Biologist
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The wording in POE has some big differences between 'more' and 'increased' damage so that carries over to how it's discussed. You're not wrong, but you're getting confused by the wording POE uses on it's nodes / gems / items.
Pretty good little run down:
[Question] what is the difference between "Increased" and "More" Area Damage? • r/pathofexile
Xequecal
Trump's Staff
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Yeah, if you have legacy items you can actually scumbag 180% more out of this node for almost any attack skill if it works this way. Just use an attack skill that naturally converts phys to lightning on top of phys to lightning gem, or use a weapon that converts phys to lightning with the gem. Call of the Brotherhood converts lightning to cold, Pyre converts cold to fire. Four conversions for 180% more. Atziri flask is worth 85% more in such a setup, Shade of Solarises are 60% more each, and Incandescent Heart will also be 60% more.
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It's doing 45% more regardless. The only question is wether or not it's doing a lot more than this when using multiple conversion due to bad coding on multi conversions, or "only" 45% more. It's more because it is multiplicative with all your damage(well technically, not chaos damage so you might be losing some damage, say if you use Atziri flask or whatever). Increased isn't mentionned anywhere so isn't relevant.
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No it doesn't. There's only 3 other things in the game that are phrased "Your hits gain". I guarantee that the extra damage is applied as it hits the target, after all conversions and increases character-side.
Kiroy
Marine Biologist
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You might be right, but based on the wording almost every poe 'elite' player disagrees with you.
Xequecal
Trump's Staff
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I know more multipliers are multiplicative while increased is additive. I'm not sure how that's relevant here though, because nothing here actually deals "increased" damage. If your point is I should be multiplying the modifiers at each conversion step, that's not actually how it works because it only adds "elemental" or "non-chaos" damage as chaos. So it gives you 45% more on the physical part of a skill, and then 45% more again when the physical damage is converted to cold, but you don't multiply those mods together because they don't apply to chaos damage. You get 45% of the physical damage as chaos, 45% of the cold damage as chaos, and 45% of the fire damage as chaos for a total of 135% more.
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Well, if I'm wrong, I'll just play a trickster and abuse the fuck out of that
I don't think people are considering the wording very much. I know the mechanics of PoE can be intricate and murky sometimes, but honest question: are there precedents for 1 item/node saying X, another item/node saying X, but acting in different ways? I gotta imagine this stuff is procedural at this point, the game engine is likely interpreting those strings to determine how they act, just like PoB.