Path of Exile

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Caliane

Caliane

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Captain Suave said:
No, I'm arguing for a game that's less about meta-statistics and more about moment-to-moment player interaction. Perhaps not the best anaolgy, but sometimes PoE feels more like an ARPG skin on Factorio. If that's what you're looking for, great, enjoy (see post above this one - more power to him), but it's not definitionally better game design.




You're reversing the point in the same way as James. It's about absolute performance relative to all builds, not whether or not you can choose your own play style that carries it's own local maxima. The strongest builds all fall within a narrow range of play styles (obviously depending how you choose to define "play style", which we'll undoubtedly disagree on). "You're free to play the game inefficiently" isn't much of a talking point, IMO.
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I'm really not.
I play SSF becuase I don't enjoy how instant access to best of gear trivializes the content. This is EXACTLY the same. Trading is not optimal TO ME. becuase I don't enjoy it. I enjoy theorycrafting and planning my own optimal builds from the items I can get, and can farm. And trading actively removes those core aspects of the game.

The exact same can be stated for automation. people who prefer that, find automation optimal, because they find hitting lots of keys tedious. Not because hitting many active skill is LESS effective. Automation is not MORE effective, it is in many ways LESS. but its efficient and less tedious. Most automation build choices sacrifice power, and choice, for ease of use.

The only problem is, presumably, despite claiming to want more active skill use in a build, you too find it actually kindof tedious, and when given the choice, DO NOT CHOOSE IT.
 
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dizzie

dizzie

Triggered Happy
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As a total noob - I have flipped currency in this game already as it's so easy to do. I've never done that before in any game, the whole trading thing is almost a game in itself (that's cause you have to interact). No broker offline selling is a good thing imo.
 
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Vorph

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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The build I used this league is at least tied for favorite build ever, and the absolute best thing about it is that I almost never have to do anything except click LMB to move and click RMB to cast ball lightnings. Even 3/5 flasks are on an endless AHK loop.

First build of the league had so many buttons that I had no space for auras and had to swap them in one at a time to turn on, and because of Vaal gems I had no hotkey space to self-cast my CoH spell and had to CWDT it instead. The build itself was great, but it was a fucking chore to play.
 
Fogel

Fogel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Yep, played RF this league, barely even had to use my scorching ray, just run around and sometimes remember to shield charge.
 
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OU Ariakas

OU Ariakas

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Vorph said:
The build I used this league is at least tied for favorite build ever, and the absolute best thing about it is that I almost never have to do anything except click LMB to move and click RMB to cast ball lightnings. Even 3/5 flasks are on an endless AHK loop.

First build of the league had so many buttons that I had no space for auras and had to swap them in one at a time to turn on, and because of Vaal gems I had no hotkey space to self-cast my CoH spell and had to CWDT it instead. The build itself was great, but it was a fucking chore to play.
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Can you share your flask AHK?
 
Vorph

Vorph

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OU Ariakas said:
Can you share your flask AHK?
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Not sure why I typed AHK there, habit I guess. What I actually use is a Logitech mouse macro that hits 3-4-5 on a 5500ms delay. I could have made an AHK script that does each delay separately so as to waste the fewest charges possible, but Pathfinder's so OP I am too lazy to bother.
 
S

Strossus

Silver Knight of the Realm
253
35
i swapped to a templar, and have been smiting my way through things, need a good 4 red socket armor soon, but so far no dice, havng fun am low 40's now in act 4
 
dizzie

dizzie

Triggered Happy
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So the big question - whats everyone going to play next and what are your goals?

This was my first league and I didn't manage shaper/elder but did the guardians, the breaches and eventually all 3 delve mobs so i was kinda happy. My final depth in the delves was 530 or so.

I'm happy(ish), though james I still get one shot!
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
10,006
12,973
Captain Suave said:
No, I'm arguing for a game that's less about meta-statistics and more about moment-to-moment player interaction. Perhaps not the best anaolgy, but sometimes PoE feels more like an ARPG skin on Factorio. If that's what you're looking for, great, enjoy (see post above this one - more power to him), but it's not definitionally better game design.




You're reversing the point in the same way as James. It's about absolute performance relative to all builds, not whether or not you can choose your own play style that carries it's own local maxima. The strongest builds all fall within a narrow range of play styles (obviously depending how you choose to define "play style", which we'll undoubtedly disagree on). "You're free to play the game inefficiently" isn't much of a talking point, IMO.
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What are you even trying to argue? Literally every game ever that has had classes and/or skills has a "best" and then a bunch of options that are not as strong.
 
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...

Goonsquad Officer
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I dunno my goal. gonna make prolly a witch of some kind...maybe minions, i dunno. I did an ice witch some leagues ago, and i wanna try another build.
 
Vorph

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Some fast pathfinder build to farm tons of T3 burial grounds to start, then Occultist LL Dancing Duo once I have enough currency. It's really hard to think about playing anything but Pathfinder though.
 
James

James

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Captain Suave said:
"You're free to play the game inefficiently" isn't much of a talking point, IMO.
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God, this is such dogshit logic. You're just not getting it, and we've said it a dozen different times in a dozen different ways. There is no "efficient" way to play the game that doesn't take YOUR SKILL into account directly. I'm talking whatever mojo it is that you feel like makes you a l33t gamer, you need that in PoE to make your build efficient for you. If you feel like your builds are not optimized very well, inefficient, or lackluster when they otherwise shouldn't be, the solution isn't to change the philosophical foundations of the entire game, it's for you to learn to fucking play.

None of us are impressed by this hand-wavy, direct from Gurgthock's mouth explanation of what you think good game design is. It's not, it's dogshit.
 
C

Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
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Captain Suave said:
None of us are impressed by this hand-wavy, direct from Gurgthock's mouth explanation of what you think good game design is. It's not, it's dogshit.
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Cool. I'm not impressed by the substitution of invective and hyperbole for actual discussion. All you've said so far is "Fuck you, you're wrong and stupid" and not made any points beyond angrily asserting that was I said isn't true. I'm sorry that I don't think the game is as perfect as you think it is. Carry on.


zombiewizardhawk said:
What are you even trying to argue? Literally every game ever that has had classes and/or skills has a "best" and then a bunch of options that are not as strong.
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I think PoE would be a better game if the globally best builds had a bigger variety in what they felt like to play. I've played the game with varying regularity since 2013, and all the builds I've tried end up feeling similar to each other and a bit monotonous. (Yes, this is entirely subjective.) Apparently that position is both ignorant and heretical.
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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dizzie said:
uber elder down.
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dizzie said:
So the big question - whats everyone going to play next and what are your goals?

This was my first league and I didn't manage shaper/elder but did the guardians, the breaches and eventually all 3 delve mobs so i was kinda happy. My final depth in the delves was 530 or so.

I'm happy(ish), though james I still get one shot!
Click to expand...

These two posts don't mix. Unless you decided to do uber elder in standard but not league?
 
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Vorph

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Captain Suave said:
I think PoE would be a better game if the globally best builds had a bigger variety in what they felt like to play. I've played the game with varying regularity since 2013, and all the builds I've tried end up feeling similar to each other and a bit monotonous. (Yes, this is entirely subjective.) Apparently that position is both ignorant and heretical.
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Do you only play melee? I would agree that melee (and "melee") skills have this problem where they all feel pretty same-y but there are huge differences in their relative strength. If I never look at another Molten Strike build again it will still be too soon.

But there's also spells, bow skills, minions, totems, traps/mines, stuff like BV, and abominations like PP which all play pretty differently.
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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Nah i'm guessing he plays RF and BV exclusively just copypasting the most popular minmaxed version of each patch and cries about how there is no variety in gameplay.

I think it's especially hilarious that he mentions "pro players" and how they all agree with him when you can watch Mathil take on all the content in the game every league with like 17 different builds and definitely not "I just need to squeeze out moar life!!1!" to get through the content.
 
C

Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
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Vorph said:
Do you only play melee? I would agree that melee (and "melee") skills have this problem where they all feel pretty same-y but there are huge differences in their relative strength. If I never look at another Molten Strike build again it will still be too soon.

But there's also spells, bow skills, minions, totems, traps/mines, stuff like BV, and abominations like PP which all play pretty differently.
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I do tend to gravitate towards meele. Perhaps I need to revisit some of the other styles that I haven't tried for a few patches.

The rest of you, take note of Vorph. This is how you constructively disagree with someone.
 
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