Path of Exile

Lightning Lord Rule · Mar 13, 2019

Deathwing said:
Still leveling up(I missed the weekend) and I finally got to try Bane last night. It's definitely powerful but I'm not sure I like it. I feel like if I have to stop moving to kill, I shouldn't have to aim(that much). I frequently get stragglers that quite clearly LOOK like they were in Bane's visual effect but didn't receive the dot nor curses. The skill already doesn't feel great because you have to apply 2-4 casts to clear a screen. I know that sounds ridiculous, but consider the relatively slow cast speed this skill will have compared to others. Adding more to get stragglers makes the skill feel even worse.

How have others dealt with these issues? I'm already considering switching to GMP-Soulrend for clear. Not sure for single target, probably gem swap.

I'm still leveling as well, currently 53ish Trickster and going through act 6. I'm using chaos skills because I've always been melee up to now and I wanted to play something different, even though chaos skills are now meta AF. I can say it's pretty fun, shit just falls over dead mostly, from either bane, ED/Contagion, or Soulrend.

I like soulrend (using GMP, unleash, efficacy) for clear. Cast it once and run behind it for a while and everything is just dead in that direction. It really is crazy from my perspective so far. I have a feeling that ED/contagion is about as fast if the mob density is high though.

Using a life/ES hybrid setup, I think what's going to work out best is:

6L ED + 4L contagion for clearing (soulrend for change of pace). I'm thinking of not even worrying about dps on contagion, just going for aoe and duration. ED dps seems nuts by itself.
4L bane with 3 curses for utility on bosses/tougher stuff. Despair for dps, Warlord's mark for the life/ES leech (I currently have 2 curses available and Warlord's mark seems to work well for survivability boost here), and maybe enfeeble? Not sure yet.
Blight on a spell totem for the debuff with the spreading rot threshold jewel.
The rest for movement and defensive stuff and auras.

I've been watching a few of mbxtreme and tarke cat's vids on this sort of build, it's interesting to see their perspectives. Mb thinks soulrend is way too slow since you have to stop and then run, while tarke absolutely loves soulrend for how fast it is, lol. Could be perception based on Trickster vs Occultist cast speed?

PS: Keep in mind this post is from a softcore playing, use whatever random junk happens to drop or whatever I can find that's somewhat ok in the gbank, relative noob at the game... so grain of salt and all that.

Derkon · Mar 13, 2019

Something I saw Waggle doing while playing ED/Contagion: You can link the new Intensify support with the increased AOE gem to contagion to give it another AOE boost, it's about as big of an AE as it was before the nerfs heh.

Deathwing · Mar 13, 2019

It is fun watching ED/Contagion crawl through some mobs. At first, it reminded me of the locusts skill from D3, which made me happy. Then it reminded me of brands, which take half the casts or even just an instant cast, which made me sad.

I'm sure ED has higher dps than brand, but does that matter for the intended application(clearing)? I want to say ED/Contagion wasn't a dps issue but a mechanics issue. Two casts just to start clearing a pack is no longer good enough in PoE. I wonder if you can get around this with that craftable trigger suffix, but that 4s CD seems like it would ruin that idea.

Pasteton · Mar 13, 2019

Brand still feels great on a 4link for nap clears but I’m only in yellow maps. I’m still simultaneously using storm burst but it feels clunky in comparison - some Map bosses it just face melts so fast you barely see the health bar where as on others it’s super shit dps and a lot slower than brand. Haven’t been able to figure out what’s goin on yet.

Lightning Lord Rule · Mar 13, 2019

Deathwing said:
It is fun watching ED/Contagion crawl through some mobs. At first, it reminded me of the locusts skill from D3, which made me happy. Then it reminded me of brands, which take half the casts or even just an instant cast, which made me sad.

I'm sure ED has higher dps than brand, but does that matter for the intended application(clearing)? I want to say ED/Contagion wasn't a dps issue but a mechanics issue. Two casts just to start clearing a pack is no longer good enough in PoE. I wonder if you can get around this with that craftable trigger suffix, but that 4s CD seems like it would ruin that idea.

It's a philosophical difference to me. There's certain skills/builds that make the game feel like a walking simulator, which I don't see the point of. So it's a balance of how something feels to play, or how satisfying it is, vs how fast and efficient it is. I tend to err towards fun/satisfying, since I go so slowly anyway.

Caliane · Mar 13, 2019

Pasteton said:
Brand still feels great on a 4link for nap clears but I’m only in yellow maps. I’m still simultaneously using storm burst but it feels clunky in comparison - some Map bosses it just face melts so fast you barely see the health bar where as on others it’s super shit dps and a lot slower than brand. Haven’t been able to figure out what’s goin on yet.

Whats your build looking like?

This is my current, actual. very early maps.

And this is the plan using current gear as basis.

With base duration, balls hit once on cast, then every .4s for 1.2s. thus hit 4 times each. While PoB only lists 1 hit per cast. every .4s increased duration, adds another hit per ball.
so, the 184k list vs a standard boss on the "projected build" here, is actually x5. 922 k

Deathwing · Mar 13, 2019

Lightning Lord Rule said:
It's a philosophical difference to me. There's certain skills/builds that make the game feel like a walking simulator, which I don't see the point of. So it's a balance of how something feels to play, or how satisfying it is, vs how fast and efficient it is. I tend to err towards fun/satisfying, since I go so slowly anyway.

That is definitely true. I don't want a walking simulator either. But, I thought about this a bit more, and that 2 cast setup for ED/Contagion is killer because it means you're standing in place for two casts doing essentially no damage. PoE can quite easily kill you for that. I'll take walking simulator over that.

Deathwing · Mar 13, 2019

On the topic of brands, Inquisitor seems quite popular. I can't figure out what about the changes makes it so appealing. I'm also surprised that almost no one is Occultist. Is it just too early for the legion of elementalists to respec to occultist?

Derkon · Mar 13, 2019

Watching a couple of twitch streamers play ED on hardcore, doesn't seem to be that much of an issue. The new trickster defense buffs are pretty helpful.

Lightning Lord Rule · Mar 13, 2019

Deathwing said:
That is definitely true. I don't want a walking simulator either. But, I thought about this a bit more, and that 2 cast setup for ED/Contagion is killer because it means you're standing in place for two casts doing essentially no damage. PoE can quite easily kill you for that. I'll take walking simulator over that.

True. I find that if you're in real trouble you have time to move around and cast both at something with enough duration on contagion. As in: cast contagion - run a bit - cast ED - run like a bitch even more - repeat. ED is lasting quite a bit in my POB setup which is pretty much ghazzy's setup IIRC. I need to change it around a bit for gear and such.

1 thing I did think about messing around with if I had cash, is crafting or buying a staff with the cast while channeling mod on it. Then you can do a 7 link setup with blight, CWC from staff + soulrend + 4 supports. I'm not sure how that would feel as a main skill, but doing that in combination with a 6L bane on chest might be interesting. The rhythm would be like: cast bane - move skill - Blight + soulrend for a short burst - repeat. No idea how good it would be though. Mbxtreme is playing with that setup using a 4L, but it doesn't seem like enough links to make it work right IMO.

Caliane · Mar 13, 2019

Deathwing said:
On the topic of brands, Inquisitor seems quite popular. I can't figure out what about the changes makes it so appealing. I'm also surprised that almost no one is Occultist. Is it just too early for the legion of elementalists to respec to occultist?

not sure on Inquis. it was was always popular. Crit lit spells especially.

I was originally planning Occultist. but, stormburst hits fast, but low damage per hit. I identified that it would need elementalist "always shocks" to actually apply shock vs bosses. So went elementalist.

Some playing with new ES leech nodes. Low life is super ideal this league.
We have passives and a ES leech support of high power. Since these expressly leech ES, you can run them AND warlords for life, AND ES leech at the same time.
Those ES leech nodes, and Eldritch battery as well. Dont really need Occultist for any of this.

ES leech cap is pretty low by default. The es leech passives in tree, give 70% increased per second, and 50% increased max. Even that was not enough for me to feel safe with CI. Felt I needed Ghostreaver doubling it again. Not sure how that effects LL or eldritch battery.

Deathwing · Mar 13, 2019

Derkon said:
Watching a couple of twitch streamers play ED on hardcore, doesn't seem to be that much of an issue. The new trickster defense buffs are pretty helpful.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just an impatient baddie that gets annoyed when I don't feel like playing safe 100% of the time. I would definitely go trickster for ED/Contagion for the huge cast speed buffs.

Deathwing · Mar 13, 2019

Caliane said:
not sure on Inquis. it was was always popular. Crit lit spells especially.

I was originally planning Occultist. but, stormburst hits fast, but low damage per hit. I identified that it would need elementalist "always shocks" to actually apply shock vs bosses. So went elementalist.

Some playing with new ES leech nodes. Low life is super ideal this league.
We have passives and a ES leech support of high power. Since these expressly leech ES, you can run them AND warlords for life, AND ES leech at the same time.
Those ES leech nodes, and Eldritch battery as well. Dont really need Occultist for any of this.

ES leech cap is pretty low by default. The es leech passives in tree, give 70% increased per second, and 50% increased max. Even that was not enough for me to feel safe with CI. Felt I needed Ghostreaver doubling it again. Not sure how that effects LL or eldritch battery.

You're right, inquisitor was always popular. I guess I was more commenting on the very low numbers of occultists.

1% hierophants is funny too.

Xevy · Mar 13, 2019

Mathil made the Inq brand switch popular last league. He respecced Heiro to Inq because his brand just didn't have as much damage and Heiro benefits weren't that great. The biggest complaint with people with brands is their damage isn't quite high enough for single target for end game. Going Inq solves that for almost any build.

This league is like the last 3 leagues. Have to wait a week or two for them to fix everything and make the mechanic worthwhile. It's what they get for not really having a beta test period for their leagues. We are their guinea pigs, but that's fine. Unless you play Hardcore. But that's your choice to be an idiot.

zombiewizardhawk · Mar 13, 2019

I used bane - despair - inc aoe to level (and added enfeeble when I got a 4th link) when pack sizes weren't great for ed-contagion. Also got a bunch of aoe nodes on the passive tree (2 near witch, not the aoe + dmg one tho, and the aoe for spells new node in the top right). Once you get some decent pack size/density though, ed+contagion gets faster because it chains

Lightning Lord Rule said:
I'm still leveling as well, currently 53ish Trickster and going through act 6. I'm using chaos skills because I've always been melee up to now and I wanted to play something different, even though chaos skills are now meta AF. I can say it's pretty fun, shit just falls over dead mostly, from either bane, ED/Contagion, or Soulrend.

I like soulrend (using GMP, unleash, efficacy) for clear. Cast it once and run behind it for a while and everything is just dead in that direction. It really is crazy from my perspective so far. I have a feeling that ED/contagion is about as fast if the mob density is high though.

Using a life/ES hybrid setup, I think what's going to work out best is:

6L ED + 4L contagion for clearing (soulrend for change of pace). I'm thinking of not even worrying about dps on contagion, just going for aoe and duration. ED dps seems nuts by itself.
4L bane with 3 curses for utility on bosses/tougher stuff. Despair for dps, Warlord's mark for the life/ES leech (I currently have 2 curses available and Warlord's mark seems to work well for survivability boost here), and maybe enfeeble? Not sure yet.
Blight on a spell totem for the debuff with the spreading rot threshold jewel.
The rest for movement and defensive stuff and auras.

I've been watching a few of mbxtreme and tarke cat's vids on this sort of build, it's interesting to see their perspectives. Mb thinks soulrend is way too slow since you have to stop and then run, while tarke absolutely loves soulrend for how fast it is, lol. Could be perception based on Trickster vs Occultist cast speed?

PS: Keep in mind this post is from a softcore playing, use whatever random junk happens to drop or whatever I can find that's somewhat ok in the gbank, relative noob at the game... so grain of salt and all that.

You don't need contagion on a 4link, the damage on the skill is terrible. Just run it in a 3link with inc aoe and inc duration or even a 2link without duration (I like duration tho and am not short on gem slots). Then throw in a 4link bane with 2 curses and inc aoe (or 3rd curse instead of aoe if you can do 3 curses, for bosses) as supplemental damage/cursing where necessary for your ED (bosses, high hp rares/blues that die slower to just ED, small packs that will die easier to a bane than an ED+Contagion since it casts way faster than a 2spell combo, emergency "i'm surrounded" moments, etc.).

Edit: Also, don't use warlords mark on an ed/blight/contagion/bane build... the only thing that leeches anything is the minimal hit damage on ED. If you use 3 curses you'll more than likely want despair + tc + enfeeble, there really aren't any other good options... unless you're trying to get endurance charges from the warlords mark for map clears?

zombiewizardhawk · Mar 13, 2019

Caliane said:
ES leech cap is pretty low by default. The es leech passives in tree, give 70% increased per second, and 50% increased max. Even that was not enough for me to feel safe with CI. Felt I needed Ghostreaver doubling it again. Not sure how that effects LL or eldritch battery.

Life leech always felt like crap to me without vaal pact, too slow otherwise. I don't see why ES would be any different, and ghost reaver is just the ES version of it now.

Deathwing · Mar 13, 2019

Xevy said:
Mathil made the Inq brand switch popular last league. He respecced Heiro to Inq because his brand just didn't have as much damage and Heiro benefits weren't that great. The biggest complaint with people with brands is their damage isn't quite high enough for single target for end game. Going Inq solves that for almost any build.

This league is like the last 3 leagues. Have to wait a week or two for them to fix everything and make the mechanic worthwhile. It's what they get for not really having a beta test period for their leagues. We are their guinea pigs, but that's fine. Unless you play Hardcore. But that's your choice to be an idiot.

Mathil didn't play brands on an inquisitor last league.

Borzak · Mar 13, 2019

I played ED contagion in the past. Couldn't remember why I wasn't a big fan of it. Played it this league and quickly it came back. I'm sure if I had gone much further and invested more in it would have worked better. But felt extremely slow early on. Probably just me. I got stuck in the memory thing and figured I'll start a new character when they get more of it tuned.

Lightning Lord Rule · Mar 13, 2019

zombiewizardhawk said:
I used bane - despair - inc aoe to level (and added enfeeble when I got a 4th link) when pack sizes weren't great for ed-contagion. Also got a bunch of aoe nodes on the passive tree (2 near witch, not the aoe + dmg one tho, and the aoe for spells new node in the top right). Once you get some decent pack size/density though, ed+contagion gets faster because it chains

You don't need contagion on a 4link, the damage on the skill is terrible. Just run it in a 3link with inc aoe and inc duration or even a 2link without duration (I like duration tho and am not short on gem slots). Then throw in a 4link bane with 2 curses and inc aoe (or 3rd curse instead of aoe if you can do 3 curses, for bosses) as supplemental damage/cursing where necessary for your ED (bosses, high hp rares/blues that die slower to just ED, small packs that will die easier to a bane than an ED+Contagion since it casts way faster than a 2spell combo, emergency "i'm surrounded" moments, etc.).

Edit: Also, don't use warlords mark on an ed/blight/contagion/bane build... the only thing that leeches anything is the minimal hit damage on ED. If you use 3 curses you'll more than likely want despair + tc + enfeeble, there really aren't any other good options... unless you're trying to get endurance charges from the warlords mark for map clears?

Ya, contagion I was thinking 4L with Aoe + Intensify + duration for max coverage.

It's funny you say that about warlord's mark, it seemed to be working to top me up as I was using it. I was using soulrend + (Bane+warlord's+despair+efficacy, I think) though, so perhaps soulrend is providing the multi-hits to proc it?

Slaanesh69 · Mar 13, 2019

Deathwing said:
You're right, inquisitor was always popular. I guess I was more commenting on the very low numbers of occultists.

1% hierophants is funny too.

Yeah, the elem crit from inquisitor is legit.

I don't know which person at GGG suddenly got their panties in a knot about totems, but it was weird that they buffed them with the Ascendancy changes and then just fucking gutted them with the new crafting system, the retarded new skill gems (two totems side by side, what the fuck GGG?) - and the recent focus on self cast.

I was a dyed-in-the-wool totem player, but even I have moved on now.

Edit - Wait, was it the Ascendancy change that killed hiero, or was it the league after? Either way, they are not a shadow (haha I am so punny) of what they were not long ago.

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