Path of Exile

Pyros

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I'm not feeling the upcoming league at all. Same buggy bloated mess as every other league. I'd really like to see their MAU. I bet it's showing some trends of decline. 4.0 is GGG's only hope. Clean start, proper trading, no bloat. I'm convinced that they will do something drastic to the trade system and it will be one of their biggest selling points. If trading is not changed, the game is doomed. The game is gonna be like 10 years old when 4.0 is released. You can't hide behind some manifesto forever.
Not sure why you'd bet that because that seems like a losing bet, the only decent number we can use is Steam users, and while Blight was terrible in that regard, Metamorph was very good, having both the usual high spike for release but also retaining more people as the league went by, having both the highest number 1month and 2months later.

Trading could use some changes for sure, but if you think the game's somehow dying because of it, you'd be wrong.
 
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Bubbles

2022 Asshat Award Winner
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Not sure why you'd bet that because that seems like a losing bet, the only decent number we can use is Steam users, and while Blight was terrible in that regard, Metamorph was very good, having both the usual high spike for release but also retaining more people as the league went by, having both the highest number 1month and 2months later.

Trading could use some changes for sure, but if you think the game's somehow dying because of it, you'd be wrong.

I'm not saying the game is dying. I'm just pointing out that the current game is at critical mass when it comes to content. And has been for a while now. There comes a point when people get tired having to deal with the same crap over and over again and walk away. And that can happen very quickly when you have such concentrated and fixed play cycle (leagues with fixed duration). Starts with, ah, I might skip the start of this league. Then suddenly you have skipped a few leagues. And the troubling part is that you don't miss the game but you try to get back in and find the game in even worse state than what drove you away, and you quit again. The vast majority of the leagues have followed the same roadmap. Gimmicky and buggy (usually buggy for a third of a league) league feature, sometimes over complicated (read time consuming) or downright annoying and a map reshuffle. Balance changes to skills have been laughable band-aid at best, most new skills have been useless, skill tree is 75% fluff with more fluff added. The big melee rework resulted in cyclone being pretty much the only viable option, and melee continues to be utter crap. PoE has ruled supreme for years, mainly because it has been unrivaled in the genre and there's always something new every 3 months or so. But with every league introduced and then sent to core, the balance shifts a bit from "I can't wait to play the new league" to "why there is so much mindless busywork etc". And you can see that devs are getting lazier as well. There's nothing to drive them, other than the arbitrary new league deadline that they foolishly set too tight years ago for a sole reason being player retention.
 
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Pyros

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Well first obviously all the leagues have the same roadmap, that's the whole point and has been ever since they started leagues. It's a gear reset, with one new gimmick. The gimmicks have gotten more complex over time and some are much more complex than others, but not sure what else you'd expect from leagues, it's a lot more stuff than D3 does, or most games really when it comes to repeated content. It has new monsters, new items, new mechanics.

Balance changes are too swingy and haven't really been that great, but they've forced meta changes several times, so in that regard, they've been successful, classes and playstyles that weren't popular were the most played when they were buffed. The melee rework has been good for more than cyclone, it just didn't make that many skills compete with the top end but overall the improvements are pretty big, it's not like melee was more viable before either, and if anything just cyclone alone was reworked into a much much better skill.

As for the devs getting lazier, not sure when that happened?


Look as I said in my post yesterday, I fully expect 4.0 will remove a lot of bloat and that there's definitely too much random stuff imo, but I don't feel it's at a point where it's actively turning people off, a lot of the superfluous content is literally just additional shit spawning that you kill and pick up some stupid tokens you then drop in your special stash.

And if you feel that content isn't worth running you don't have to either, I often skipped abysses if they went backwards last league, I skipped a bunch of corner breaches if they weren't chayula, I didn't bother opening essences stuff if they didn't have the big ones and so on. I also stopped running some of my missions at some points cause I had all the gear I wanted and there was no point in bothering with it. A lot of that bloated content is really super optional and you can skip it if you don't want to do it.

You can get tired and that's fine, I skipped some leagues in the past, sometimes in a row, doesn't mean that I won't come back to the game eventually. It's the same with FFXIV I play that a lot but I skip a ton of patches and just resub whenever a new thing releases and I'm excited to play, and the rest of the time I don't. Just wait until 4.0 if you don't feel like playing, a lot of people will still play. It will eventually die for sure but it's a long process for this type of game, especially when there's virtually no competition. And if by 4.0 you find that you still don't feel like playing, then you'll be done, but as long as there's new players to replace older players getting tired, it really doesn't matter. When you have people playing a game for 5+ years, you're always going to run into that issue. That's why people quit EQ, WoW, LoL, Dota, CS and so on.
 
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Deathwing

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I'm not saying the game is dying. I'm just pointing out that the current game is at critical mass when it comes to content. And has been for a while now. There comes a point when people get tired having to deal with the same crap over and over again and walk away. And that can happen very quickly when you have such concentrated and fixed play cycle (leagues with fixed duration). Starts with, ah, I might skip the start of this league. Then suddenly you have skipped a few leagues. And the troubling part is that you don't miss the game but you try to get back in and find the game in even worse state than what drove you away, and you quit again. The vast majority of the leagues have followed the same roadmap. Gimmicky and buggy (usually buggy for a third of a league) league feature, sometimes over complicated (read time consuming) or downright annoying and a map reshuffle. Balance changes to skills have been laughable band-aid at best, most new skills have been useless, skill tree is 75% fluff with more fluff added. The big melee rework resulted in cyclone being pretty much the only viable option, and melee continues to be utter crap. PoE has ruled supreme for years, mainly because it has been unrivaled in the genre and there's always something new every 3 months or so. But with every league introduced and then sent to core, the balance shifts a bit from "I can't wait to play the new league" to "why there is so much mindless busywork etc". And you can see that devs are getting lazier as well. There's nothing to drive them, other than the arbitrary new league deadline that they foolishly set too tight years ago for a sole reason being player retention.
There's a couple ok points in here, but this is 90% retarded drivel.
 

Zindan

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I'm not sure 4.0 will remove any bloat at all, it will mostly likely add more onto the pile. There will be a new campaign, but I am thinking all the added core League content up to 4.0 will be accessible in that new campaign. Chris stated pretty clear that making 4.0 without all the old content from the past 10yrs would be a bad thing, and I don't think he simply meant the 7 new acts in the new campaign.

I'm a really casual PoE fan. Syndicate made me realize what a great game PoE is, but its not that great to have me avidly play each league since. I said recently that PoE gameplay looks comical to me now, it used to look ok ... but now. Ugh. When watching Mathil or Ziz play, I keep hearing the "chase" theme from Benny Hill. The game, such at it is with its "combat" is just comical looking. I feel PoE hasn't really evolved at all in 10yrs in that one aspect (combat), and that is sad. I mean, all you do for combat is run around as fast as you can disintegrating 10-15 objects at a time with some flashy effects, and sometimes you spend a few minutes running around a single big object hoping you remember the pattern (this isn't PoE exclusive, obviously).
 

Deathwing

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Only the comment about the dev's being lazy is incorrect, everything else seems to be true?
Pyros addressed the post the same manner I would have if I felt Reddit Repost Bot was worth the effort.

His two previous posts read like someone blaming their ex for the breakup without doing any introspection.
 

Caeden

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Yeah. The melee rework helps but melee still feels like shit compared to even hardcasting spells and the right way to play the game is use any trigger or passive dps.

I think people have the wrong impression of 4.0. It’s a new set of acts. I don’t think they intend to undo any of the new endgame. Could be wrong. There will be some temporal dissonance.

Trade does frustrate me and that’s why I’m taking a break a league. I don’t have a great answer to fix it, but my fun to frustration ratio flipped. Probably just burn out and other responsibilities.
 

Caeden

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Also - LOL at the devs being lazy. No fucking way. The GGG devs bust ass with what they deliver every 3-4 months.

Do I agree with their design? No. I think crafting is a touch obtuse or trading too frustrating and they don’t understand melee.

Lazy they are not.
 

mkopec

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Yeah I thought 2.0 was just a new campaign added to the game with new graphics. I dont think they are removing anything.
 

Slaanesh69

Millie's Staff Member
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I don't get the whining about taking things out of the game. I mean I get it on reddit, but here? Just run past Cassia or whichever other league content that you don't want to engage with - some other player will love Blight but skip over your favorite instead.

THIS.

PoE has basically become the All You Can Eat Buffet of ARPGs. You may be able to go in and eat one of everything but afterwards you will be uncomfortable. Also, you need to research what is on the menu before you go in - you may not like that All You Can Eat Sauerkraut and Sausage menu.

I used to build a Warchief Totem starter every league, now I do a Cyclone starter every league. Sometimes I do one or two more builds, most times I never finish another to 90. I like to experience the gearing and skill pointing out of a character, get a good feel for the new mechanic, do some end game stuff and quit.

What league stuff you can do can depends on your build too. My Cyclone guy can't do Blight Maps very well, and can get fucked by it in high Red maps so I usually skipped it unless I was just YOLOing maps for a night. I don't like Atzoatl very much so I often skip temples and I had so many of those missions when I quit this league it was amusing (although I definitely do it early because the +health +% health chest items from the boss are great starter gear).

You play PoE enough I think everyone reaches an equilibrium with the game. I've shown mine, people like Deathwing go far deeper into each league. It all depends on how much you want to eat at that buffet.
 

LachiusTZ

Rogue Deathwalker Box
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Someone hooked me up with a sexy foil.

Dunno if it was a member here? Seemed just #RandomPerson
 

Nirgon

Log Wizard
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Trading doesn't bother me. I just need a break every other league (or two) or so unless something huge like harbinger+new acts drops.
 

Pyros

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The GGG special "we're buffing the Atlas" "we're also nerfing it a bunch"

I like that the "incentive" for bonus awakening is removing the increased map drops, moving the increased difficulty modifier shit to it and slapping some half assed 10% master mission bonus(but after nerfing master mission so it's effectively only 5% compared to the past leagues). It's effectively even less attractive to get awakening bonus, since you're making your maps harder for very little reward.

 
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a_skeleton_03

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The GGG special "we're buffing the Atlas" "we're also nerfing it a bunch"

I like that the "incentive" for bonus awakening is removing the increased map drops, moving the increased difficulty modifier shit to it and slapping some half assed 10% master mission bonus(but after nerfing master mission so it's effectively only 5% compared to the past leagues). It's effectively even less attractive to get awakening bonus, since you're making your maps harder for very little reward.

I think that they were having issues with map levels dropping with those bonuses.

There were still issues with map chests dropping nothing and also at least two unique maps not dropping at the right tier at all and that was after fixes.
 

dizzie

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So everyone's been saying how great mapping has been this league and GGG just decide fuck it, we'll nuke that from orbit.

Well it was good while it lasted I guess, but this is a shitty change.
 
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Thregin

Blackwing Lair Raider
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I like the fact that you can now target 1 region for your T16 if you so wish whitout sacrificing all of your awakening levels and the conqueror changes that we knew about.

Don't know if i've missed something but i dont see where the map drops are nerfed, are you talking about the 24% map modifiers that they moved to awakening bonus? But even if they nerfed it i'm fine with it. I mentioned in a earlier post how delve cities and alva temples were close to worthless this league. The major reason for that is the glut of map drops. I think there's a happy medium where maps are still valuable - thereby restoring the value of delve cities/temples - and you're not starved for maps.

Granted part of what made map drops less fun/valuable for me, besides the glut, is also that theres too many at each tier now while horizon orbs behave in a stupid way so alot of them you just don't want to run.
 

Jox

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He means this part "We'll also be removing the "x% chance for Maps to drop one tier higher" bonus from Awakening Bonus Objectives.". But if the bonus for map completion is still in, it shouldn't be that bad. Awakening bonus was only worth half of the completion bonus.
 
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Thregin

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Ok i missed that part at the end of the paragraph. But to be fair just 5 or so lines above that after talking about moving the awakening bonus they say "Otherwise, all of the bonuses that Awakening Levels grant remain as is".

So thats some mixed messages right there.