Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous

Void · Sep 23, 2021

One thing people don't really think about if they are fairly new to the system is that if you're having trouble hitting stuff with high AC, turn off power attack, piranha attack, and whatever that one for bows is called. It can very quickly start adding up to -3 and higher to hit. Everyone loves to do more damage and typically leaves that on, but if you never hit that bonus damage isn't doing shit.

As far as haste on Camellia, somewhere in Act 2 I picked up a +3 rapier with haste (and electricity I believe) for her. That's at least a temporary fix for your dilemma.

Nirgon · Sep 23, 2021

Welcome to my foray into mystic theurge theorycrafting

Qhue · Sep 23, 2021

I've turned Nenio into a Metamagic Missile bot. She spends most of her spell slots on various flavor of Magic Missile along with using the +force dagger. I'm most disappointed by Prismatic Spray as it seems to not ever do anything owing to Spell Resistance, Elemental Resistance, Saving Throws, Uncanny Dodge etc.

mkopec · Sep 23, 2021

Xequecal said:
Yeah, casters are pretty useless. The main thing you need from them is Haste which is actually kind of a pain since out of all the companions, only Nenio and Woljif can actually cast it. Both are almost completely useless at everything else, Nenio for being a caster and Woljif because it's dual-wielding on top of 3/4 BAB which means he can't hit anything.

Maybe in vanilla but they have mods for that. True, not a real experience, but then why have casters at all when useless? Eldrich Arcana mod.

Urlithani · Sep 23, 2021

Xequecal said:
Yeah, casters are pretty useless. The main thing you need from them is Haste which is actually kind of a pain since out of all the companions, only Nenio and Woljif can actually cast it. Both are almost completely useless at everything else, Nenio for being a caster and Woljif because it's dual-wielding on top of 3/4 BAB which means he can't hit anything.

Not quite. There are builds for Nenio where you can get DC54 saves on Weird. She can clear a whole room of anything that isnt immune to mind-affecting.

You can also do crazy things like stacking using Greater Enduring Spell and Cave Spikes to create near-infinite damage, or stacking 10-25 Pillar of Life and kiting Playful Darkness into it.

Theres no such thing as a useless caster: even casting a bunch of summons that absorb one melee hit is one less hit the characters take. (You can keep your party away from the Umbral Dragon and spam summons around it. It can breathe 3 times a day; after the third time you can move the party in).

Qhue said:
The degree to which my people get one-shot is insane. My main tank has an AC of 46 and will still get annihilated in one round of combat owing to the demons having like 6+ melee attacks and never missing.

My main combat strategy now is to just combat rez the tank over and over since the demons still focus fire her even when she's barely on her feet. She goes down and Lann rezzes her again next round.

Wizards are somewhat gimped this time around since everything has spell resistance and elemental resistance. Even giving Nenio the most spell penetration I can manage and letting her ignore elemental fire resis using Mythic talent she still struggles to hurt these fools.

I'm starting to think something may be off with their save logic because my main Grenadier will hit a fool for 45+ but if they save they get hit for 6...

If your main tank has Use Magic Device, take the mythic ability Last Stand (you cant die for 2 rounds), and use a scroll of Vampiric Shadow Shield. Anything with a bunch of melee attacks that's not-undead will kill themselves on the damage shield. Could do fire shield or shield of dawn too if they're not resistant to fire/cold.

Kirun · Sep 23, 2021

Xequecal said:
Yeah, casters are pretty useless. The main thing you need from them is Haste which is actually kind of a pain since out of all the companions, only Nenio and Woljif can actually cast it. Both are almost completely useless at everything else, Nenio for being a caster and Woljif because it's dual-wielding on top of 3/4 BAB which means he can't hit anything.

Woljif has been a superstar for me. Turned him into a vivi and he tears through shit with sneak attack. Plus all his self-buffs come in super handy for being up in melee.

Cybsled · Sep 23, 2021

Who are the best companions for a good character? Lann is pretty good DPS on his bow. Ember has been good because she has a lot of CC and debuffs it feels like.

On Camila, how do you use that sword ability? I press it and nothing even seems to happen

Kirun · Sep 23, 2021

Cybsled said:
Who are the best companions for a good character? Lann is pretty good DPS on his bow. Ember has been good because she has a lot of CC and debuffs it feels like.

On Camila, how do you use that sword ability? I press it and nothing even seems to happen

You have to activate the actual spirit effects you want. Ghost weapon, keen, fire, shock, etc.

mkopec · Sep 23, 2021

Again summoners, with no mods were used to beat Kingmaker in the highest difficulty. Pets, either summoned or true are one of the strongest in the game, and especially here where you can actually build your pets.

bytes · Sep 23, 2021

This last page doesn't make me want to get the game, sounds like there's a very narrow path you can tread in terms of builds and you're shit out of luck if step out of it.

Dr.Retarded · Sep 23, 2021

Quick question. Are there helms in the game, or just goofy headgear like crowns, etc?

Just weird having characters running around in plate wearing a tiara.

mkopec · Sep 23, 2021

bytes said:
This last page doesn't make me want to get the game, sounds like there's a very narrow path you can tread in terms of builds and you're shit out of luck if step out of it.

Wrong... There was 100s of builds you could use in Kingmaker (have not gotten this game yet but from all Ive been seeing there is even more) Archers, tanks, rogue type dps, bards, summoners, dual wield fighters, 2h fighters, clerics....etc...etc... I played through Kingmaker like 3 times but the most fun I had was when I downloaded the mod to respec your companions to what you wanted. They build the companions all retarded in this game. Probably on purpose, but still... 1/2 the fun in this game is the building. So why settle for only your character.

Kirun · Sep 23, 2021

bytes said:
This last page doesn't make me want to get the game, sounds like there's a very narrow path you can tread in terms of builds and you're shit out of luck if step out of it.

If you want to play on the hardest difficulties, yes. That's almost always the case with RPGs. There are other difficulties that'll allow you to just play "normally".

Armadon · Sep 23, 2021

You can beat normal with anything really. You gotta fuck up your party pretty bad to not beat the game.

Urlithani · Sep 23, 2021

bytes said:
This last page doesn't make me want to get the game, sounds like there's a very narrow path you can tread in terms of builds and you're shit out of luck if step out of it.

A lot of this stuff is necessary for hard and unfair, even some optional fights for Core. They made sure in beta you can beat it with base classes and companions in their base classes without any multiclassing.

But if you play on Normal difficulty it should be no problem.

I'll use a skyrim analogy since most people know it: on legendary, everything has massive hit points and is a damage sponge, so you abuse alchemy and enchanting, etc. To get 1000% more damage or whatever to make things manageable. WoTR on normal is like normal difficulty skyrim: you can play just about whatever and it'll be fine.

Randin · Sep 23, 2021

bytes said:
This last page doesn't make me want to get the game, sounds like there's a very narrow path you can tread in terms of builds and you're shit out of luck if step out of it.

Depends on the difficulty. I haven't picked up WotR yet, but if it's balanced like Kingmaker, then on Normal or below you can totally just pick a class and level it to 20, and you'll be perfectly fine; ditto for your party members. Anything above Normal, and the game will be balanced around the assumption that you're using build guides.

Xequecal · Sep 23, 2021

Urlithani said:
Not quite. There are builds for Nenio where you can get DC54 saves on Weird. She can clear a whole room of anything that isnt immune to mind-affecting.

You can also do crazy things like stacking using Greater Enduring Spell and Cave Spikes to create near-infinite damage, or stacking 10-25 Pillar of Life and kiting Playful Darkness into it.

Theres no such thing as a useless caster: even casting a bunch of summons that absorb one melee hit is one less hit the characters take. (You can keep your party away from the Umbral Dragon and spam summons around it. It can breathe 3 times a day; after the third time you can move the party in).

If your main tank has Use Magic Device, take the mythic ability Last Stand (you cant die for 2 rounds), and use a scroll of Vampiric Shadow Shield. Anything with a bunch of melee attacks that's not-undead will kill themselves on the damage shield. Could do fire shield or shield of dawn too if they're not resistant to fire/cold.

I understand things like infinite damage loops exist, but that's not really playing the game. In Skyrim you could also use crafting loops to get infinite stats and infinite damage, but when you're at the point of just exploiting the game engine it's not really caster vs. not-caster anymore.

Really wondering how you get to DC 54, though. For a level 9 spell it's 19 + INT modifier, right? Focus/Greater Focus adds another two, where do you get the rest?

Urlithani · Sep 23, 2021

Xequecal said:
I understand things like infinite damage loops exist, but that's not really playing the game. In Skyrim you could also use crafting loops to get infinite stats and infinite damage, but when you're at the point of just exploiting the game engine it's not really caster vs. not-caster anymore.

Really wondering how you get to DC 54, though. For a level 9 spell it's 19 + INT modifier, right? Focus/Greater Focus adds another two, where do you get the rest?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. You're not really playing the game on Hard/Unfair either unless you're using cheese. Take Hosilla for instance; there's few scenarios on Unfair where you can stand toe to toe in melee with her. The main tactic is to use entangle, take your turns with your characters using ranged in turn based, switch to RTWP before her turn and run away. Switch back to turn based and take your turns again shooting her. She will never catch you.

If you use cheese on higher difficulties, you're not playing the game...but if you don't use cheese, you're not playing the game either (because you will never advance without it).

As for the Nenio build, I haven't seen it (not something I bothered to fact check because it doesnt surprise me that it's possible) I haven't gotten that far. I know it involves min/maxing, specializing in evocation/conjuration and using some mythic ability to apply your metamagic feats from those schools to Illusion. Theres probably a couple of magic items and a stacking bonus that applies the extra DC's from your feats in both Evocation/Conjuration when it shouldn't? Spell focus, greater spell focus, mythic spell focus, expanded arsenal?

Xequecal · Sep 23, 2021

Urlithani said:
I'm not sure what you mean by that. You're not really playing the game on Hard/Unfair either unless you're using cheese. Take Hosilla for instance; there's few scenarios on Unfair where you can stand toe to toe in melee with her. The main tactic is to use entangle, take your turns with your characters using ranged in turn based, switch to RTWP before her turn and run away. Switch back to turn based and take your turns again shooting her. She will never catch you.

If you use cheese on higher difficulties, you're not playing the game...but if you don't use cheese, you're not playing the game either (because you will never advance without it).

As for the Nenio build, I haven't seen it (not something I bothered to fact check because it doesnt surprise me that it's possible) I haven't gotten that far. I know it involves min/maxing, specializing in evocation/conjuration and using some mythic ability to apply your metamagic feats from those schools to Illusion. Theres probably a couple of magic items and a stacking bonus that applies the extra DC's from your feats in both Evocation/Conjuration when it shouldn't? Spell focus, greater spell focus, mythic spell focus, expanded arsenal?

"Not really playing" means you're using a strategy that's guaranteed to work no matter how hard the difficulty is set. With infinite damage, the game difficulty is totally irrelevant, you could buff Unfair to have 100x the HP and 100x the damage everything has now and it would be exactly as easy.

Urlithani · Sep 23, 2021

Secret ending guide. Still a work in progress but it's mostly done. Considering the steps involved I can't imagine how long it would have taken if it wasnt known or datamined in advance.

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/guides/Secret_Ending

you ascend to become a god. Depending on how you do, a certain NPC and possibly your companions will ascend to demigod status in your service.

True Aeon (but not renegade aeon) and Legend are locked out of this ending. Swarm that walks yet to be confirmed.

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Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous

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