Politics, civility, and you!
- Thread starter a_skeleton_03
- Start date
There is though and you just saying it isn't reality doesn't prove anything. Give some hard numbers if that's your goal or some kind of study.
Every single situation can be boiled down to two options no matter how many options you start with. One person is going to win and only one. Laws will always be yes and no.
- 1
BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
- 14,430
- 2,213
I can't imagine any kind of study that could be made on this. I'm just talking about being rational. It's not like there's any evidence to what you're saying. Having two parties means your choice is between two rigid ideologies that are BOTH going to be wrong about a lot of shit all the time because they're not making decisions based on objective reality. You can't be a democrat and say "Well maybe there should be a wall on the Mexican border" because you will be shouted down by the rest of your party for going against their dogma, whether or not it makes any sense in this situation. If there were multiple parties that people voted for but didn't feel loyalty toward, then there would be room not only for people to vote more rationally, but also for the parties themselves to evolve based on outcomes instead of being bound by rigid ideology. The current structure is a terrible environment for either politicians OR voters to act rationally.
- 3
Both parties aren't as rigid as you are making them out to be though. Every candidate has different key issues they focus on and others that they don't.
How can you be sitting in a Trump presidency and say that both parties only adhere to rigid ideologies?
- 1
iannis
Musty Nester
- 31,351
- 17,656
The fluid third party idea does work, but it doesn't have to be a discrete party. It tends to be better if it isn't, at least in America, I think.
The fluid third party are supposed to be the practical moderates within each of the two established parties. And you actually want them to be there to mitigate the outer edges of that party.
If all you have is 4+ parties all with extreme to intransigent ideologies AND you have majority rule then obviously nothing ever happens.
But when you kick out all your RINO's and DINO's what you're left with is two extreme parties in which the majority shifts back and forth every cycle. Which is the loop that America is caught in this generation and the one past.
The fluid third party are supposed to be the practical moderates within each of the two established parties. And you actually want them to be there to mitigate the outer edges of that party.
If all you have is 4+ parties all with extreme to intransigent ideologies AND you have majority rule then obviously nothing ever happens.
But when you kick out all your RINO's and DINO's what you're left with is two extreme parties in which the majority shifts back and forth every cycle. Which is the loop that America is caught in this generation and the one past.
- 2
iannis
Musty Nester
- 31,351
- 17,656
The parties are suppose to incorporate parlimentary politics within themselves. They do, in some degree. That's been more true in some periods of american history and less true in others, it tends to be less true in ours. But that's the way that two parties works, that's the way that it has to work.
The system outlined in our constitution doesn't necessarily stipulate two parties -- it doesn't prohibit more -- but it does encourage the social organization that two parties represent. Don't be so quick to poo-poo that social organization. That social organization conquered the world.
This system really was constructed for slow communication, deliberation among the aristocracy, and a frontier nation.
The system outlined in our constitution doesn't necessarily stipulate two parties -- it doesn't prohibit more -- but it does encourage the social organization that two parties represent. Don't be so quick to poo-poo that social organization. That social organization conquered the world.
This system really was constructed for slow communication, deliberation among the aristocracy, and a frontier nation.
- 2
BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
- 14,430
- 2,213
Do you know how rare something like Trump is? Once in a lifetime or maybe less. This is the kind of thing that should be happening every election cycle. I don't think Trump is a step in the right direction with regards to what he wants to do with the country, but he is a sign of hope that there could be a departure from the current R/D stranglehold on the US. Unfortunately he's most likely going to be a failure and we will return to the status quo in 4 years.
- 3
- 1
- 18,801
- 67,743
Outlaw political parties. Outlaw private campaign finance. Outlaw campaign advertising. Every candidate gets a $5000 check to produce a campaign video. Put them all up on a .gov website. Election day is a national holiday.
- 2
- 2
- 17,781
- 25,896
Screamfeeder
The Dirtbag
- 13,309
- 11,209
- 1
- 18,801
- 67,743
Also if it is ever found out that you spent any more than the $5000 given to you, including any personal funds, on producing your campaign video you will be executed. There is no statute of limitations on this violations and a single cent over the limit is sufficient to trigger the penalty. There will be a separate .gov site that hosts videos of all these executions.
- 4
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
- 25,537
- 12,023
If this is true, then I'm even more weird than I've been told. I'm pretty good at seeing things from other people's perspective, but I can't wrap my mind around this.
Don't eliminate the EC, just make all the votes apportioned.
- 2
Kreugen
Vyemm Raider
- 6,599
- 793
For me the premise of this thread is funny because the majority of the political talk I get in the "real world" is one sided angry ranting based on made up bullshit that whatever idiot believes with absolute conviction, where the only safe response is mocking agreement and encouragement or a non-committal grunt followed by an attempt to change the subject.
Recent examples would be Obama is a piece of shit for paying people to make up bad things about Trump, and CNN needs to be burned to the ground for spreading fake news. Also, all liberals should be killed. There isn't exactly a lot of room left for civility there.
It's funny to me how people with the strongest convictions always seem to be the most misinformed. Whoever said talking politics is like talking religion is right on fucking point.
Hell, there are still actual christian fundamentalists. And a good number of them get voted into positions of power. How can you possibly have an actual civil discussion with someone who will angrily insist that dinosaur bones are the world's oldest conspiracy?
Hopefully this explains why I just parachute into the politics thread with a quip about something that makes me laugh and consider "srs" discussions there to be little more than masturbation. The lunacy I'm surrounded by has taught me that facts and information may as well be printed on toilet paper, because so much of humanity invents their own that the truth simply doesn't fucking matter. Take your one vote and your choice between douchbag and turd sandwich and worry about things you can control.
Talking politics is best left to the comedians.
Recent examples would be Obama is a piece of shit for paying people to make up bad things about Trump, and CNN needs to be burned to the ground for spreading fake news. Also, all liberals should be killed. There isn't exactly a lot of room left for civility there.
It's funny to me how people with the strongest convictions always seem to be the most misinformed. Whoever said talking politics is like talking religion is right on fucking point.
Hell, there are still actual christian fundamentalists. And a good number of them get voted into positions of power. How can you possibly have an actual civil discussion with someone who will angrily insist that dinosaur bones are the world's oldest conspiracy?
Hopefully this explains why I just parachute into the politics thread with a quip about something that makes me laugh and consider "srs" discussions there to be little more than masturbation. The lunacy I'm surrounded by has taught me that facts and information may as well be printed on toilet paper, because so much of humanity invents their own that the truth simply doesn't fucking matter. Take your one vote and your choice between douchbag and turd sandwich and worry about things you can control.
Talking politics is best left to the comedians.
- 4
- 1
Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
- 30,374
- 22,144
I know how I harass you for the one liners with no substance. This was a good post though.
- 1
- 25,389
- 37,457
Might not be a bad thing, really. everyone needs a fucking break here and watch some minecraft vids.
- 2
- 1
Kreugen
Vyemm Raider
- 6,599
- 793
- 18,801
- 67,743
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
- 25,537
- 12,023
Talking politics IRL is just frustrating because no one will ever cite their sources.
Also, I think it's more like talking sports with rabid fans. Most people who talk about religion at least start out trying to convince you of their belief.
- 1
BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
- 14,430
- 2,213
As old Fred Nietzsche used to say "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies".
- 1