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What the heck, did I click on Screenshots? That view that Xeq described is a "joke," "insane," and "just plain stupid?" The situation described is *literally* the definition of trust issues. Completely regardless of gender or feminism or whatever other labels you want to put on it.

1. Both parties agree / feel they are in a serious, committed relationship.

2. One party has a situation where they need to sleep with a dude/chick (a ski trip like eomer described, being a marine like a_skeleton_03, etc)

3. The other party says "No, you can't do that, because I don't........trust........you to keep it in your pants."

Trust is what makes committed relationships so special; being faced with temptation but having the strength/willpower to resist it because you value your relationship, and knowing (dare I say TRUSTING) your partner to do the same. That's why it's so god damn hard to get it, feels so god damn good when you have it, and hurts so god damn much when you lose it.

All I'm reading here is none of you trust your significant others. Cad, I'm most surprised at your response. You've been married for quite a while, right? And yet still, if your wife went on a business trip or something, and shared a hotel room with a guy, you would "absolutely never tolerate" it (Xeq said, you agreed)? Eomer and Picasso, you guys said similar things, two sides of the same coin, that you don't trust your girlfriends with any guy you think they are attracted to or with any guy you think is attracted to them. Key phrase, "don't trust." Trust issue!

And just to wrap up, I'm not saying these feelings are unwarranted or 'wrong;' I'm not saying I didn't have the same feelings back when I was in a committed relationship. I'm just calling a spade a spade. As are those women Xeq mentioned. (and just to nip any side-arguments in the bud, those women could totally be hypocrites and cheating around or controlling their boyfriends or whatever; I'm simply talking about how the situation Xeq presented from his perspective)

Jabberwhacky_sl said:

What the heck, did I click on Screenshots? That view that Xeq described is a "joke," "insane," and "just plain stupid?" The situation described is *literally* the definition of trust issues. Completely regardless of gender or feminism or whatever other labels you want to put on it.

1. Both parties agree / feel they are in a serious, committed relationship.

2. One party has a situation where they need to sleep with a dude/chick (a ski trip like eomer described, being a marine like a_skeleton_03, etc)

3. The other party says "No, you can't do that, because I don't........trust........you to keep it in your pants."

Trust is what makes committed relationships so special; being faced with temptation but having the strength/willpower to resist it because you value your relationship, and knowing (dare I say TRUSTING) your partner to do the same. That's why it's so god damn hard to get it, feels so god damn good when you have it, and hurts so god damn much when you lose it.

All I'm reading here is none of you trust your significant others. Cad, I'm most surprised at your response. You've been married for quite a while, right? And yet still, if your wife went on a business trip or something, and shared a hotel room with a guy, you would "absolutely never tolerate" it (Xeq said, you agreed)? Eomer and Picasso, you guys said similar things, two sides of the same coin, that you don't trust your girlfriends with any guy you think they are attracted to or with any guy you think is attracted to them. Key phrase, "don't trust." Trust issue!

And just to wrap up, I'm not saying these feelings are unwarranted or 'wrong;' I'm not saying I didn't have the same feelings back when I was in a committed relationship. I'm just calling a spade a spade. As are those women Xeq mentioned. (and just to nip any side-arguments in the bud, those women could totally be hypocrites and cheating around or controlling their boyfriends or whatever; I'm simply talking about how the situation Xeq presented from his perspective)

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It's not about trust bro, it's about women's jealousy. If you try the trust angle on your girl in regards to a situation like this, she'll just say she trusts you, but doesn't trust the other girl. Just the *thought* that this other girl might want you (not even act on it) is enough to drive your girlfriend nuts..

Personally, even I would have some minor jealousy/issues over my girl sleeping in some straight dudes bed. But I have NEVER met a chick that would be cool with me sleeping in bed with another chick.

I have a friend who works at a company where they need to share a hotel room on business travel. That blows my fucking mind. But still, wouldn't they at least get a double queen room?

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:

It's not about trust bro, it's about women's jealousy. If you try the trust angle on your girl in regards to a situation like this, she'll just say she trusts you, but doesn't trust the other girl. Just the *thought* that this other girl might want you (not even act on it) is enough to drive your girlfriend nuts..

Personally, even I would have some minor jealousy/issues over my girl sleeping in some straight dudes bed. But I have NEVER met a chick that would be cool with me sleeping in bed with another chick.

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Hmm, but isn't "minor jealousy/issues" the same as lack of trust? If your girlfriend sleeps with a dude, you trust her to say thanks but no thanks or get the fuck away from me. The next day you'll find out whether or not she lived up to your expecation.

And I'd agree with the way you describe girls as saying "I DO trust you, but I don't trust HER," but that's just bullshit girl double talk. Really, that means she doesn't trust you, because you (the boyfriend) are the agent of action. Either you cheat on her, or you don't. You. You are trustworthy or you are not.

Hopefully I'm not coming across as argumentative because that's not my intent. I've had real-life friend recently say I was arguing semantics when I truly felt I wasn't, that I was trying to convey my point, so please set me straight if I'm offbase.

It isn't exactly a matter of trust just a matter of I would in no way want to be with someone who thinks it is perfectly acceptable to sleep in the same bed as some guy she says is just her bestie. I trust my wife to never make that retarded decision.

Jabberwhacky_sl said:

Hmm, but isn't "minor jealousy/issues" the same as lack of trust? If your girlfriend sleeps with a dude, you trust her to say thanks but no thanks or get the fuck away from me. The next day you'll find out whether or not she lived up to your expecation.

And I'd agree with the way you describe girls as saying "I DO trust you, but I don't trust HER," but that's just bullshit girl double talk. Really, that means she doesn't trust you, because you (the boyfriend) are the agent of action. Either you cheat on her, or you don't. You. You are trustworthy or you are not.

Hopefully I'm not coming across as argumentative because that's not my intent. I've had real-life friend recently say I was arguing semantics when I truly felt I wasn't, that I was trying to convey my point, so please set me straight if I'm offbase.

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No, you're coming off as someone that thinks like a man, no shame there. Unfortunately, girlfriend "bullshit double talk" is a reality, whether you deem it bullshit or not. Your girlfriend doesn't care that you think it's bullshit, and proclaiming it bullshit or trying to explain it away logically will just get your junk pushed in. This, along with all sorts of other things, is just part of life if you prefer pussy over dick.

Everyone on earth has "trust issues". It's just a matter of how severe/outrageous they are.

I personally wouldn't give a shit about my woman sleeping in bed with another man.

And I bet a large portion of women would take issue with the fact that I don't care. I've run into a lot of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations in the past. I just don't care anymore.

My friend and I drunkenly made a Farmers Only account before hitting the bars one night. What is hilarious is, at the time, your interests could only be selected from a drop-down box of maybe 20 things. And the interests were like "Hunting, Muddin', NASCAR." Our profile picture was the first google image result of "farmer with his shirt off." We got tons of traffic. I know we were huge into muddin'.

Jabberwhacky_sl said:

Hmm, but isn't "minor jealousy/issues" the same as lack of trust? If your girlfriend sleeps with a dude, you trust her to say thanks but no thanks or get the fuck away from me.The next day you'll find out whether or not she lived up to your expecation.

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I get the gist of your argument, but it is rooted in heavy-duty idealism. What if the guy friend is into her and it isn't totally obvious? What if heavy drinking is involved? What if it goes south, against her will? Or that's what she tells you, at least. And the guy friend insists whatever happened was consensual and she came on to him.

Does this sound like a hypothetical? What if I told you I've experienced this EXACT scenario with a girl I was dating at a big boozefest at a weekend house? There were less beds than people, so it was kind of "crash wherever". She went to bed earlier than me. A guy she was friends with (I didn't know him very well, but he was friends with a lot of my friends) was already asleep in the bed. I was wary of this but assumed she knew him well and it was fine. She acted a little off the next day; she said she was hung over (which she probably was), but something wasn't quite right. A few weeks later, it came out that something went down and both sides had their story: "he forced himself on me when I was drunk" vs "she came in with the intent of hooking up", more or less. As I got to know her better, it turns out she is self-absorbed to a moral fault with myopic foresight into consequences, so the guy was probably the one closer to the truth. But the truth is still probably a gray-area date rape. The kind where both people are plastered, and consent is muddled by booze and stupidity.

I didn't know at the time how she was, we were still pretty early in dating. So I would be a controlling, jealous asshole for being wary and not wanting her in that situation, right?

Also, "find out the next day" is some serious rose-colored glasses. I think she admitted it happened because she could tell it wasn't adding up and she decided to get ahead of the story. Even if the friend did 100% assault her, that would be a very difficult conversation that many people would be hesitant to have with their partner.

Idealism is nice. Reality isn't always as nice.

Also, to be clear: you are making an broad argument and I'm providing a counter-point. I'm aware there are plenty of much safer scenarios where objection isn't nearly as reasonable. For instance, my girlfriend could have flipped when I went to visit a friend that is gay & stayed in his tiny NYC apartment. She didn't and obviously nothing happened. OR DID IT??











No, nothing happened.

Vvoid_sl said:

Also, let's not forget one thing none of us seem to really think about because we're dudes. Even if the woman wants nothing to happen, sometimes the guy isn't of the same mindset, and even if she doesn't end up actually being raped, do you really want someone you love going through such a traumatic experience because some dickhead thought he'd take advantage of the situation? I know I wouldn't.

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I didn't see your post before I completed my wall of text but yeah, case in point. Bad situations can happen and not be your partner's fault. Regardless of fault, it still creates a shitty situation and with fingers being pointed back and forth, a very murky one as well.

I was thinking of rape when I was typing my response (but honestly when AREN'T I thinking about rape!) and I didn't mention it because I feel it's a bit of a separate issue. Since it's been brought up though, I'll say that full-blown rape is a horrible, horrible fact of life. If it can happen toThe Nanny, it can happen to anyone, anywhere, at any time. Would she be seen as "asking for it" because she didn't hire a team of security guards to watch her house 24/7? Course not. Much like cancer, fuck rape.

There is something to be said for a strong, self-defensable woman, though. It's funny that Oblio mentioned Fargo, because just a few weeks ago there was a scene where the petite cancer-ridden and sickly wife of the main policeman comes home, sees two pairs of strange shoes in the foyer, and instead of getting all scared and calling her husband, she reaches into the closet and pulls out a fucking shotgun and starts stalking through the house to find out who the fuck is trying to get up in her family's shit. It was awesome. Considering that at any time as a girl, roughly half of the planet wants to stick their dick in you, I don't know why every jiu jitsu, taekwondo, krav maga class isn't filled to the rafters with chicks learning how to defend themselves. I do that shit just because I don't want some guy to push me down and take my money; if he wanted to fuck me I'd be going morning noon and night.

Below full-blown rape, we get into the he-said she-saids like in your example Haast. Your situation sucked, and I unfortunately have also experienced that, although unlucky for me it was not early in the relationship. I would not say in that situation you'd have been a controlling, jealous asshole. I'd just say you were early enough in your relationship to not have developed much trust, and her actions would indeed warrant you to be wary/upset. That is, assuming you don't go the laisezz-faire Khane route of "whateeeever duuuuuude." I mean, what's the alternative? That you ask her / tell her not do ever do anything involving guys? Obviously not, which is exactly where trust comes in, and why I had said it's so good when you have it and so awful when you lose it. Trusting her to not drink so much as to lower her inhibitions, trusting her to value your relationship so as to keep her legs shut, etc.

And when I said "the next day" I just meant "in the future." Maybe the next day, maybe the next week, or maybe when the baby comes out and has the wrong skin color. Or, you'll never find out, and just live out your life, in an 'ignorance is bliss' sort of way, of which I'd probably actually be a bit jealous.

Tenks, I would agree with you too. That guy/girl "bestie" crap creeps me out. It really seems 99% of the time the dude is just waiting for the opportunity to spread its legs (like Eomer described) and the girl, she may or may not be knowingly doing it, but is definitely playing with fire. That kinda relates to how Cad says his wife going to dinner with another man and how it would look. My first response to reading that was to think how closed-minded it was, but then I was like ehhh maybe he's right, and with your example, fur sure.

Jealousy itself seems to stem from a trust issue mixed with a self-confidence/security issue. That's why you run up against damned if you do/damned if you don't women. Not being jealous when she's trying to make you jealous really means that you feel that, should the worst happen (or whatever) and she bails... you'll be just fine. That's a genuine problem if someone needs to think they are the most central thing in your life. So they make that leap from "he thinks he'll be fine!" to "he thinks he'll be better off!" For some reason, just plain stupidity I think, they seem to not quite get the concept of tolerable pain and they just think that they can't hurt you. Jealousy is a petty and selfish thing.

I dunno. I haven't had one try to run that game on me in years. I was just assuming that women grow out of it. Maybe I've just been lucky and haven't hit the ones that go stupid in that fashion.

Yall have trust issues. I'd be fine with my girlfriend sleeping in the bed with another dude assuming it was justified(traveling is the biggest thing that comes to mind). If you can't trust your girlfriend/wife to not fuck the first guy that hits on her, maybe you shouldn't be dating.

We both have hung out with each others ex's and invite them for drinks/bbqs.

Jabberwhacky_sl said:

Tenks, I would agree with you too. That guy/girl "bestie" crap creeps me out. It really seems 99% of the time the dude is just waiting for the opportunity to spread its legs (like Eomer described) and the girl, she may or may not be knowingly doing it, but is definitely playing with fire. That kinda relates to how Cad says his wife going to dinner with another man and how it would look. My first response to reading that was to think how closed-minded it was, but then I was like ehhh maybe he's right, and with your example, fur sure.

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Yeah, for me it's not that I don't "trust" my girlfriend. I very much do. She's not the cheating type, in the slightest. I just don't think that it's a great idea to put yourself in a situation where bad shit can happen, whether that be infidelity, rape, or what have you. The good thing is, is that I trust her judgement to not put herself in that kind of a situation, in terms of shacking up with a "platonic", straight friend of the opposite sex. I could give a shit less if she went out to dinner with a co-worker or something like that, though.