Retro Gaming Thread
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Tanoomba
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I never got into the Wizards & Warriors games. I found the controls very uncomfortable with lousy jumping physics, awkward hit boxes and extremely difficult to use attacks. Playing without a guide, I never had any idea where to go or what to do. They just seemed to be more frustrating than fun. Maybe I'd be able to appreciate them more if I played them now, especially if I do a bit of research first. I kind of see them as games where Rare was still learning the ropes of NES game development. There are hints of quality there (I do like the soundtracks, even though most of the individual tracks loop WAY too quickly), but overall they fall well below the standards set by more polished and playable NES games.
Nirgon
YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
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Is he banned? Can I not converse with this gentlesir about NES games? Which is too bad I was going to agree to the weirdness of a knight in armor jumping up through trees and sliding around on ledges. But it had some cool stuff like anything touching the point of the sword getting owned and some clever skills you learned along the way to poke n cheese.
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Tanoomba
ジョーディーすれいやー
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Most Sundays my brother and I go to a friend's place and I get some SNES gaming in. For the last few weeks, I've been playing Secret of Mana, which I haven't cleared since many years ago. Now I LOVED Secret of Mana, I had always considered it a masterpiece. The graphics are brilliantly colored and vibrant, the soundtrack is beyond compare and the fact that you control the action in real-time was always something that set it apart from the menu-based battles of other RPGs.
Having said that, holy shit does the game have some flaws that make it really difficult to play today!
- Those ring-based menus are AWFUL. Press Y for your character's menu, X for your teammate's menu, X again for your other teammate's menu, and Y twice to back out of your teammates' menus. While the menu is open, press up or down to switch between weapons, armor, items, magic, and options (and it always seems like I'm pressing the maximum number of buttons to get to the menu I want). So let's say I'm playing the main character and the girl's weapon level goes up. I want to see what weapon to equip her with next, so I press X, find the options ring, select "Weapon/Magic Level", and select each weapon to see if there is one where her level of mastery is less than the number of orbs. Then I have to make sure another character isn't using the weapon I want her to have. If someone is, I have to check to see if they have mastered that weapon yet themselves. It's a cumbersome, awkward process that never gets comfortable.
- Shops don't tell you whether the equipment they sell is stronger or weaker than what you've already got equipped. I guess that wasn't the standard yet but man does it seem archaic to go without it now.
- The only way to power up your weapons and magic is by excessive grinding. This is especially a pain for magic, where you have to spam spells repeatedly until you're out of MP, go back to town to rest at an inn then repeat again and again.
- Powering up your weapons allows you to charge your strikes multiple levels. However, charging is a lengthy process that limits your mobility and rarely seems worth it because...
- You miss repeatedly and never really know why. Was it because the enemy dodged your attack? Was it because you didn't line yourself up with the enemy sprite properly? Was it because the enemy was still temporarily invulnerable after the last time he was struck? In an action game based on your timing and placement, you need clear visual feedback of what's going on and that's often not there.
- Your teammates suck and usually just get in the way. Even if you set their behavior to stay away from enemies and play defensively, they often mess up your attacks by striking an enemy first, and they can easily get stuck on environmental hazards.
- The overworld is confusing as fuck. I've spent hours in the same few areas and still regularly get lost. I can never remember, for instance, how to get back to the blacksmith. It seems like every area has multiple entrances and exits that lead to other areas, making the layout a tangled knot of frustration. Maybe it's just me, but this drives me crazy.
- You can lose a lot of progress by dying, since in many cases you can only save at a town and may have to do an entire dungeon and its boss in one go. I died several times at the Wall Face boss, for instance, but on my way to him I fought several Tomato Men who are most efficiently killed with the Sprite's magic. This left me with no MP, unable to use magic against the boss. Simple solution: Stock up on Faerie Walnuts (which restore MP), right? Except the nearby town doesn't stock them. Nor does the other town. Or the dwarf town. Nope, I had to find Neko's shop, which due to my previous point was time-consuming and maddening. Ironically, by the time I got back to the boss I had run past the Tomato Men and didn't even end up needing to use a Faerie Walnut after all.
In my youth I was a lot more forgiving of all that stuff. Heck, a lot of my complaints are based on modern game conventions that simply didn't exist at the time, so it's a little unfair to judge SOM by today's standards. Plus, I'm usually a few beers in by the time I play it, which may very well add to the difficulty. SOM does do some things very well, and I have every intention of continuing to play it bit by bit every week. In a way, having to put up with its flaws makes it all the more satisfying when I do make progress and, as previously mentioned, the graphics and sound are still an absolute joy. It's just interesting to see how some games feel a lot different than they used to, you know?
Having said that, holy shit does the game have some flaws that make it really difficult to play today!
- Those ring-based menus are AWFUL. Press Y for your character's menu, X for your teammate's menu, X again for your other teammate's menu, and Y twice to back out of your teammates' menus. While the menu is open, press up or down to switch between weapons, armor, items, magic, and options (and it always seems like I'm pressing the maximum number of buttons to get to the menu I want). So let's say I'm playing the main character and the girl's weapon level goes up. I want to see what weapon to equip her with next, so I press X, find the options ring, select "Weapon/Magic Level", and select each weapon to see if there is one where her level of mastery is less than the number of orbs. Then I have to make sure another character isn't using the weapon I want her to have. If someone is, I have to check to see if they have mastered that weapon yet themselves. It's a cumbersome, awkward process that never gets comfortable.
- Shops don't tell you whether the equipment they sell is stronger or weaker than what you've already got equipped. I guess that wasn't the standard yet but man does it seem archaic to go without it now.
- The only way to power up your weapons and magic is by excessive grinding. This is especially a pain for magic, where you have to spam spells repeatedly until you're out of MP, go back to town to rest at an inn then repeat again and again.
- Powering up your weapons allows you to charge your strikes multiple levels. However, charging is a lengthy process that limits your mobility and rarely seems worth it because...
- You miss repeatedly and never really know why. Was it because the enemy dodged your attack? Was it because you didn't line yourself up with the enemy sprite properly? Was it because the enemy was still temporarily invulnerable after the last time he was struck? In an action game based on your timing and placement, you need clear visual feedback of what's going on and that's often not there.
- Your teammates suck and usually just get in the way. Even if you set their behavior to stay away from enemies and play defensively, they often mess up your attacks by striking an enemy first, and they can easily get stuck on environmental hazards.
- The overworld is confusing as fuck. I've spent hours in the same few areas and still regularly get lost. I can never remember, for instance, how to get back to the blacksmith. It seems like every area has multiple entrances and exits that lead to other areas, making the layout a tangled knot of frustration. Maybe it's just me, but this drives me crazy.
- You can lose a lot of progress by dying, since in many cases you can only save at a town and may have to do an entire dungeon and its boss in one go. I died several times at the Wall Face boss, for instance, but on my way to him I fought several Tomato Men who are most efficiently killed with the Sprite's magic. This left me with no MP, unable to use magic against the boss. Simple solution: Stock up on Faerie Walnuts (which restore MP), right? Except the nearby town doesn't stock them. Nor does the other town. Or the dwarf town. Nope, I had to find Neko's shop, which due to my previous point was time-consuming and maddening. Ironically, by the time I got back to the boss I had run past the Tomato Men and didn't even end up needing to use a Faerie Walnut after all.
In my youth I was a lot more forgiving of all that stuff. Heck, a lot of my complaints are based on modern game conventions that simply didn't exist at the time, so it's a little unfair to judge SOM by today's standards. Plus, I'm usually a few beers in by the time I play it, which may very well add to the difficulty. SOM does do some things very well, and I have every intention of continuing to play it bit by bit every week. In a way, having to put up with its flaws makes it all the more satisfying when I do make progress and, as previously mentioned, the graphics and sound are still an absolute joy. It's just interesting to see how some games feel a lot different than they used to, you know?
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McCheese
SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
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The first official strategy guide I ever bought was for Secret of Mana. Pretty sure I'd have never beaten the game as a kid without it, due largely to some of the things you mentioned. I remember it was key to know exactly which kind of magic to use on each boss, because using the right one basically trivialized it, but using the wrong one made things almost impossible.
Same goes for FFIII. God I can't even count how many times I read through this bad boy:
I remember one time I was playing and had the strategy guide open on the floor next to me, and a spider was crawling on it. I slammed it shut and mashed the spider into the pages, so I was never again willing to open up to those pages.
Same goes for FFIII. God I can't even count how many times I read through this bad boy:
I remember one time I was playing and had the strategy guide open on the floor next to me, and a spider was crawling on it. I slammed it shut and mashed the spider into the pages, so I was never again willing to open up to those pages.
Tanoomba
ジョーディーすれいやー
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Playing FF3(VI) was a transformative experience. The jump in quality from 2(IV) to 3 was staggering (we didn't even know 5(V) existed at the time). The verdant grass on the mountain tops, the organic-looking curvature in the stonework, that hauntingly beautiful reflective lake you walk by in the Phantom Forest... This game was GORGEOUS.
(Look at this shit.)
I'm not going to even get into the soundtrack. There is good reason this game is well known for defining the SNES's sound capabilities. It's just outstanding.
OK, fuck it, I'll just share one of my original favorites:
Reading your post I was reminded of the time I was playing FF3 at night, I was seeing everything for the first time and just wanting more of it (similar to how I'm playing BOTW now, actually), and I decided to stay at an inn with Shadow in my party, completely unaware that he had "dream" cutscenes you could randomly trigger. The screen faded to black and, instead of a cheery tune and the lights coming back on, I was physically stuck in a black void of nothingness while the game blared a devil siren from hell at me. I had no idea what was going on and was terrified to my core. Did I break the game? Why was it yelling at me? Even after it became apparent it was a mysterious and vague cutscene (Who are these people? Do I need to write this down?), it took a few minutes for the jitters to settle down after that. Did they really have to repeat that horrific cacophony so many times? Jesus. Easily one of the most intense video game experiences of my life.
Actual Trigger Warning:
No, seriously. Don't watch this shit if you intend on sleeping tonight.
And you know what? I bet they intended to scare the fuck out of me. They were Kojima-ing before Kojima, playing against gaming expectations in order to shock and confuse the player... It was brilliant design and, for me at least, plays a role in supporting the concept of games as art.
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Woefully Inept
Ssraeszha Raider
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I tried playing SoM again about a month ago and I had to stop after about 15 hours. Many of the same complaints as well as the fucking AI pathing. Having them get stuck on everything and having to constantly backtrack or go super slow so they don't get stuck is absolutely enraging. ugh
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Tanoomba
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pharmakos
soʞɐɯɹɐɥd
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generic wizard sprite from Ogre Battle.
so i'm going to be starting chemotherapy again soon, and this time around i will probably be in the hospital for 2-3 weeks at a time. i don't have much cash, but to help pass the time i'm going to buy some more games for the Game Boy Advance my girlfriend got me a few weeks ago. what games do you guys think i should pick up?
only willing to spend $20+ for a single game if its an RPG, probably.
so i'm going to be starting chemotherapy again soon, and this time around i will probably be in the hospital for 2-3 weeks at a time. i don't have much cash, but to help pass the time i'm going to buy some more games for the Game Boy Advance my girlfriend got me a few weeks ago. what games do you guys think i should pick up?
only willing to spend $20+ for a single game if its an RPG, probably.
Tanoomba
ジョーディーすれいやー
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The GameBoy Advance is a great system with a lot of quality titles. Here are a few suggestions:
Platformers:
- Drill Dozer
- Wario Land 4
- Sonic Advance 1, 2 & 3
- Mega Man & Bass
- Metroid Fusion
- Metroid: Zero Mission
- Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
- Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
Casual Pick Up & Play:
- Konami Collector Series Arcade Advanced
- Game & Watch Gallery 4
- Mr. Driller 2
- Wario Ware Inc.
- Namco Museum
Space Shooter:
- Gradius Galaxies
RPG:
- Golden Sun 1 & 2
- Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
- Final Fantasy I & II
- Final Fantasy IV
- Final Fantasy V
- Final Fantasy VI
- Fire Emblem
- Phantasy Star Collection (watch for the save bug)
Action/Adventure:
- The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
Elminage
N00b
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Action RPG:
Shining Soul II - diablo 2 on the GBA
JRPG:
Lufia: The Legend Returns - this is a GBC game but it's excellent, currently playing it myself on the 3DS. It has randomly-generated dungeons, an interesting combat system where you have tons of party members, and perhaps the best graphics I've seen on the GBC.
Also, if some games are too expensive on eBay, you can buy bootlegs on Aliexpress. Mother 3 translated is $6 shipped. You could also buy a flash cart ( krikzz.com ) or a clone system that comes with one ( K101+ ).
Wantonsoup95
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Picked up Taito Legends 1 and 2. Lots of old arcade games on these! Some fun shoot em ups and beat em ups on these!
I think there's only 1 or 2 arcade collections I'm missing for my playstation 2 library, such a sucker for these.
I think there's only 1 or 2 arcade collections I'm missing for my playstation 2 library, such a sucker for these.
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Woefully Inept
Ssraeszha Raider
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If you get Golden Sun make sure to get the sequel as well. It ends rather abruptly iirc. I never did play the sequel.
pharmakos
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thanks for the advice guys
i think that's the route i'm going to go, actually. is aliexpress really the best place to go? anyone else have opinions on the best place to get repro GBA carts?
i think that's the route i'm going to go, actually. is aliexpress really the best place to go? anyone else have opinions on the best place to get repro GBA carts?
Elminage
N00b
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are there OTHER places to go for illegal repro gba carts? they're all going to be made in the same one or two factories, so if you buy them from a USA seller, you're just going to be paying an inflated price for the same exact thing. also, non-legit repro carts (like the ones on aliexpress) are ILLEGAL for USA sellers. good luck, you are going to need it.