Science!! Fucking magnets, how do they work?

Ambiturner_sl said:

What leads you to believe the intensity of gravity would have any effect on the speed in which it propagates?

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Wanted to respond to this before the thread got Misted up.

I was more making the point that we already have examples (potential examples, no one actually knows what goes on after the event horizon) of acceleration in excess of C, so the idea of velocity being limited to the limits of relativity is already up for debate. Based on my very limited human knowledge of gravity, my best guess at present is that it is some sort of all pervading force that connects all matter in the universe. As stated up previously, any simulated model of the solar system where there is anything less than instant transmission of gravitic force results in shit flying apart. Since we are here, we are reasonably certain that this has not occurred. Ergo, my best (poorly) educated guess is that gravity is instant and omnipresent.

Totally dig that to. Now that we consider Pluto an exoplanet (and likely a captured one at that) there is a ton we can learn by studying it. Plus science at its core is about pushing boundaries. Pluto is about as far as the hand of man has reached to this point, so its pretty amazing.

Ambiturner_sl said:

While math certainly breaks down inside a black hole, a lot of trajectory calculations done with spacecraft have to take gravity moving at the speed of light into account in order to be accurate.

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Completely and totally wrong on every level. Every man made object ever launched into space has used newtonian orbital mechanics to plot and ACCURATELY predict its location and movements, with gravitation being calculated with instantaneous travel speed. You don't even seem to understand the fact that General relativity itself calculates gravity acting instantaneously, with only changes in the fields propagating at the speed of light. If you want to change your argument to rightfully match this theory, then you'd still be wrong.

Perhaps you are thinking of the effect of time dilation on GPS satellite synchronization? That is a completely different subject, and yes, that occurs. Their orbital position is still tracked Newtonianly, though. Perhaps you want to mention the pioneer anomaly? No reason to go into far detail, but the one thing they are certain of is that general relativity's gravitational theory does not accurately explain it. While many aspects of relativity have been proven true, the speed of gravity is by far the most contestable part.

Also new horizons is great stuff. Extremely commendable, and we need more stuff like it.

Ya'll need to explain this. How did solving the problem of precession of Mercury depend on Gravitational speed being c?

Ambiturner_sl said:

It's so bizarre how you pick and choose random parts of theories to believe when they necessarily depend on each other.

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Justify that claim. The history of the schwarzschild metric predates einstein by a hundred years.http://www.phys.ufl.edu/courses/phy3...ichell1784.pdfRelativity itself as a theory predates einstein by THOUSANDS of years, all he did was modify it slightly to make it more consistent with extreme situations, and one can argue lorentz did the true legwork mathematically. You believe these theories are interconnected, when they simply are not. Just because they got historically placed into the same branch of physics does not mean they have the same sources, the same reasons or evidence behind them. To understand science as best as you possibly can as a person, you have to study and learn about every aspect and evaluate each aspect on its own merits.

The swarzschild metric and the idea that time slows as gravity increases is an idea that is well studied, justified and experimently verified. The idea that the changes in gravitational propagation are limited to the speed of C is not required or necessary to the previous idea for it to function at all. That theory has not been experimentally verified, and only inferred from highly questionable systems where we can not even accurately see the starting variables. Furthmore- we have reached the point technologically where we should have direct detected it, but have NOT- a strong indicator the theory is seriously flawed at the very minimum, and possibly even observationally contradicted, though it might be a tad early to go that far.

So while you are correct when you say that general relativity is used for deep space missions, nasa only uses the part that has any basis in reality, and I was careful to make my distinction that gravitational energy being limited by C is NOT a part of what they use in their calculations. If you want to see for yourself that gravity is instantaneous in schwarzschild metrics, just look at the math for them. Wikipedia should be sufficient.

Troll_sl said:

And you completely forgot the most famous use, solving the problem of the precession of Mercury.

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Lol, you don't even know the math, read above.

I think this one of those times when Furry makes outlandish claims, based on incorrect facts( sun gravity been only twice of earth), and when people point his incorrect knowledge of a fact(sun gravity is 28 times of earth); it is followed by him not adjusting his argument and just continue trolling.

Furry_sl said:

I don't even know where to begin with this. First of all, gravitational pull most certainly DOES effect spectral lines, as has been determined with extremely specific emission lines on earth [pound-rebka]. The reason they are exactly the same here and on the sun is due to the fact that spectral lines are a bit fuzzy, and all spectral lines on the sun come from the upper atmosphere, which is gravitationally not that different than earth. Even if you went down to the surface of the sun, its what, twice the gravity of the earth? That's not enough to produce a statistically relevant answer, unless you created a very specific emission line. Perhaps you are referring to the spacing between lines always being constant even when shifted? I can talk on that subject if you want.

Unfortunately, the sun has no emission lines, since it is a black body. Actually, most shit in nature is black bodied. Natural bodies are extremely poor for this sort of experiment.

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Tell us furry more abut how Nasa only uses the real part of the equations, not the fake part.