Science!! Fucking magnets, how do they work?

Furry

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Neutron radiation and the damage it causes is a low concern for any fusion reactor. It can destroy or make unserviceable the materials housing it slowly over time, but its far less in scale and danger of a problem when compared to the nuclear waste problems involved with fission reactors. That and the fact that the materials here aren't exactly all that expensive would probably just lead to the housing being replaced if this ever becomes a real issue. I can't see it ever being a legitimate concern if we manage to conquer all the other, much more severe issues with making fusion power work.

One thing I am not too aware of is: What are the effects of neutron radiation on superconductors? We know so little about them, and they tend to have some weird properties. I bet someone has done some research...
 

Running Dog_sl

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One thing I am not too aware of is: What are the effects of neutron radiation on superconductors? We know so little about them, and they tend to have some weird properties. I bet someone has done some research...
Yeah it's been talked about before e.g.

http://puhep1.princeton.edu/mumu/tar...ber_052711.pdf

As expected the effects are different for different types of superconductor; happily it doesn't seem that the effects are too significant. The bigger issues seem to be (as usual) with the manufacture of the superconducting tape or wires.

The material MIT are proposing may not have been studied though.
 

pharmakos

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So Hawking, making some waves again.

Stephen Hawking says he has a way to escape from a black hole - New Scientist

Not necessarily a new idea, but taking it in a new direction.

It also opens up a lot of different avenues of exploration. 2-dimensional flow of information around a 3-dimensional singularity could explain multiple effects: black hole "rotation", relativistic jets, Hawking radiation, how black holes accrete... Exciting stuff.
also from that article

"The message of this lecture is that black holes ain't as black as they are painted. They are not the eternal prisons they were once thought," he said. "Things can get out of a black hole both on the outside and possibly come out in another universe."
i really feel like he's just starting to make shit up now.
 

Agraza

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he was saying they may destroy information in this universe and create it another years ago. he endorses M theory, at least aspects of it, and connected universes are a part of that afaik.
 

pharmakos

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to me, a theoretical physicist trying to prove the existence of alternate universes is about akin to a paleontologist trying to prove that dragons existed

maybe i'm wrong, but it really to me just sounds like wishful thinking caused by too much science fiction
 

Agraza

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it's an end run around conservation of mass. shit it might even be true, but it's just one of those things we can't test yet afaik.
 

iannis

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It might be, but when the laws of physics can no longer be said to apply -- when you find that boundary -- I think you can name whatever is on "the other side" to be an alternate universe without conjuring up visions of Star Trek and alien fishmonsters.

I'm not nearly educated enough to make a distinction between a deviant subset or an alternate. And it seems a little bit like a matter of semantics. "In this area, shit be different yo. Real different."

Because semantically Universe descibes the whole to me. Even the areas where shit is real different and none of our tediously derived concepts apply. If we can express it, that is part of the Universe. I also suspect that there are elements of the whole which we cannot express and possibly may not ever be able to express... but that's not the Universe's fault.
 

pharmakos

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I also suspect that there are elements of the whole which we cannot express and possibly may not ever be able to express... but that's not the Universe's fault.
i always felt like Godel's Incompleteness Theorems applied to more than just math.

the Incompleteness Theorems essentially just state that all proofs are necessarily either incomplete or incorrect, or both.
 

pharmakos

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tried for a bit to find a good explanation of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem for people that aren't familiar with hardcore logic/math. here's the best one i found so far:

Giving a mathematically precise statement of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem would only obscure its important intuitive content from almost anyone who is not a specialist in mathematical logic. So instead, I will rephrase and simplify it in the language of computers.

Imagine that we have access to a very powerful computer called Oracle. As do the computers with which we are familiar, Oracle asks that the user "inputs" instructions that follow precise rules and it supplies the "output" or answer in a way that also follows these rules. The same input will always produce the same output. The input and output are written as integers (or whole numbers) and Oracle performs only the usual operations of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division (when possible). Unlike ordinary computers, there are no concerns regarding efficiency or time. Oracle will carry out properly given instructions no matter how long it takes and it will stop only when they are executed--even if it takes more than a million years.

Let's consider a simple example. Remember that a positive integer (let's call it N) that is bigger than 1 is called a prime number if it is not divisible by any positive integer besides 1 and N. How would you ask Oracle to decide if N is prime? Tell it to divide N by every integer between 1 and N-1 and to stop when the division comes out evenly or it reaches N-1. (Actually, you can stop if it reaches the square root of N. If there have been no even divisions of N at that point, then N is prime.)

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What Godel's theorem says is that there are properly posed questions involving only the arithmetic of integers that Oracle cannot answer. In other words, there are statements that--although inputted properly--Oracle cannot evaluate to decide if they are true or false. Such assertions are called undecidable, and are very complicated. And if you were to bring one to Dr. Godel, he would explain to you that such assertions will always exist.

Even if you were given an "improved" model of Oracle, call it OracleT, in which a particular undecidable statement, UD, is decreed true, another undecidable statement would be generated to take its place. More puzzling yet, you might also be given another "improved" model of Oracle, call it OracleF, in which UD would be decreed false. Regardless, this model too would generate other undecidable statements, and might yield results that differed from OracleT's, but were equally valid.

Do you find this shocking and close to paradoxical? It was even more shocking to the mathematical world in 1931, when Godel unveiled his incompleteness theorem. Godel did not phrase his result in the language of computers. He worked in a definite logical system and mathematicians hoped that his result depended on the peculiarities of that system. But in the next decade or so, a number of mathematicians--including Stephen C. Kleene, Emil Post, J.B. Rosser and Alan Turing--showed that it did not.

Research on the consequences of this great theorem continues to this day. Anyone with Internet access using a search engine like Alta Vista can find several hundred articles of highly varying quality on Godel's Theorem. Among the best things to read, though, is Godel's Proof by Ernest Nagel and James R. Newman, published in 1958 and released in paperback by New York University Press in 1983.
What is Godel's Theorem? - Scientific American

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and here's anotherdecent but not great oneone that sucks actually upon further reading:Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem and God | Perry Marshall

this line from it is great, though:

G?del's Incompleteness Theorem says:

"Anything you can draw a circle around cannot explain itself without referring to something outside the circle - something you have to assume but cannot prove."
 

Troll_sl

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It's not quite true that "the Incompleteness Theorems essentially just state that all proofs are necessarily either incomplete or incorrect, or both."

The two predicates for GIT are 1) the theory being studied is complete and 2) the theory being studied is sufficiently strong. Hawking'shypothesisis, at this point--and I would easily bet by his own admission--neither. Nor do I believe he's trying to prove the existence of other universes. I think that was more of an, "This could still be part of the explanation. We haven't ruled it out."

You also seem to be under the assumption that scientists believe our universe is self-contained--set aside from other universes (if they exist at all). As far as I know, there has never actually been any proof to this concept. We haven't drawn a circle around anything yet. We don't even knowhowto reference our universe against what is not our universe, except in very superficial ways (differences in constants, for instance).


...And I think we're talking cross-purposes. I hope we're not. But I think I may be misunderstanding you.
 

pharmakos

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^ that first predicate isn't quite right. the theory being studied is never "complete."

GIT is a beautifully simple concept that can get obfuscated when you try try to put it into words.
 

Troll_sl

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No argument there.

As far as "complete" goes in this sense, however, I had learned that for this case, it meant, "Sufficiently complex, sufficiently simplified." Basically with enough explanatory power that it can be formulated. (Whether or not that formula is itself simple is another matter.)
 

Furry

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I won't even give this paper the fart in the wind it deserves. They don't talk about or mention the loopholes that they don't close. Closing two loopholes in one experiment is not new or ground-breaking in any way. To prove QE you -MUST- close every loophole simultaneously. Any one left open immediately invalidates the experiment, and there are more than two loopholes to close.

Additionally, you don't even seem to understand the mathematical concept that bells equation tried prove; the concept itself something I've brought into question before in this thread, so any attempt to argue with you on the fundamentals of this subject is completely wasted.
 

Picasso3

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Closing things simultaneously a particle scale seems like it would fall under an uncertainty principle.
 

Ambiturner

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I won't even give this paper the fart in the wind it deserves. They don't talk about or mention the loopholes that they don't close. Closing two loopholes in one experiment is not new or ground-breaking in any way. To prove QE you -MUST- close every loophole simultaneously. Any one left open immediately invalidates the experiment, and there are more than two loopholes to close.

Additionally, you don't even seem to understand the mathematical concept that bells equation tried prove; the concept itself something I've brought into question before in this thread, so any attempt to argue with you on the fundamentals of this subject is completely wasted.
You either didn't read the paper, or don't understand the loopholes. I'm guessing both