Shōgun

Cybsled

Cybsled

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I sort of read it differently. Presuming Toronaga was correct in his observation with Mariko at the end of the episode, Hiromatsu effectively threw himself on a grenade to prevent the rest of the generals from killing themselves in protest. I don't think Toronaga wanted Hiromatsu to die originally, but he also couldn't deviate from his deception of surrender and had to let the thing play out.
 
Tuco

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mewkus said:
at first i thought the same, but later it seemed to hint that it was a planned suicide to make toronaga look like he had lost all support, even amongst his closest retainers. a feudal japanese lord is not above using vassal suicides as a means to an end.
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There's no reason to believe that Toronaga planned that suicide, though. It was merely a convenient way to convince his enemy he was going to surrender. Why was this important? So his brother would let him laze about instead of taking him directly to Ishido? That whole part was pretty contrived.
 
Bald Brah

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I think it was meant to show how cold and calculating Toronaga really is. This wasn't just a retainer, this was Toronagas best lifelong friend.

The show always paints Toronaga as the sympathetic figure and Ishida as the "bad" guy. But I think at the end it's meant to flip the script. I believe it reveals Toronaga has always been angling behind the scenes for the power of Shogun. He most likely did commit the crimes the council wants him dead over. Ishida really is trying to keep the council of five in power but Toronaga outplays him with these maneuvers. Using Mariko to turn the heir's army to his side ensures the defeat of the council, and right after that the defeat of the emperors forces as well.

Toronaga assumes total control and only allows the emperor to live as a captive. Even though it is not revealed until the last scene I think it was implied that Toronaga was always angling to be the Shogun, and really is the "bad" guy from the Imperial perspective.
 
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spronk

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guess emmys were on last night



the two main leads, anna sawai (mariko) and sanada (toranaga) plus best drama. jarvis i think didn't win for blackthorne

my fav was nestor carbonell, he played Richard on Lost and I loved that character

 
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Mahes

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spronk said:
guess emmys were on last night



the two main leads, anna sawai (mariko) and sanada (toranaga) plus best drama. jarvis i think didn't win for blackthorne

my fav was nestor carbonell, he played Richard on Lost and I loved that character

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That is amazing,

The awards actually got it right.

Well deserved and hopefully this leads to more period pieces with this kind of quality being made.
 
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Homsar

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Not saying it didn't deserve it but hasn't it been a pretty weak year of TV?
 
Jackie Treehorn

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Homsar said:
Not saying it didn't deserve it but hasn't it been a pretty weak year of TV?
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Shogun was not bad, and it was pretty / well shot, and it had some good acting, but it wasn’t *that* great. I’d never possibly watch it again. 10 years from now I’m not going to remember it like a Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Wire, whatever.

I could give a toss about awards and I don’t even watch a lot of TV in general, but if this show won THAT many awards I could only think it was in fact a weak year of TV.
 
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Homsar

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Jackie Treehorn said:
Shogun was not bad, and it was pretty / well shot, and it had some good acting, but it wasn’t *that* great. I’d never possibly watch it again. 10 years from now I’m not going to remember it like a Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Wire, whatever.

I could give a toss about awards and I don’t even watch a lot of TV in general, but if this show won THAT many awards I could only think it was in fact a weak year of TV.
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Well it got renewed for 2 more seasons so let's see how that goes. Should have stayed a mini series
 
spronk

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it was for shows that aired june 2023 to june 2024 so yeah kinda of a weak year. Bear season 2 kinda got robbed, but s3 was really weak so could have had a knock off effect. House of the Dragon was not eligible (next year).

The only show I think got robbed was Slow Horses.
 
Chinaman889

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Homsar said:
Well it got renewed for 2 more seasons so let's see how that goes. Should have stayed a mini series
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They can easily do season 2 with more political intrigue and the battles leading up to the Battle of Sekigahara (there were plenty of forces/armies that switched sides during the war). Season 3 can be the actual war culminating with the actual Battle of Sekigahara followed by the victory of Toronaga and the cleanup afterwards. Oh yeah, the white dude will probably build those European ships that give Toranga a huge advantage in this war (despite that not being the case in RL).

Bam, last two seasons done.
 
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Rabbit_Games

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I wish we could get more RL shit instead of just fantasy. I tried to watch Napoleon thinking I'd get to see some cool historical examples of his genius... only to get some freaky story about his weird obsession with a woman. Meh.
 
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Homsar

Homsar

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Rabbit_Games said:
I wish we could get more RL shit instead of just fantasy. I tried to watch Napoleon thinking I'd get to see some cool historical examples of his genius... only to get some freaky story about his weird obsession with a woman. Meh.
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Is that why that movie failed so bad. I thought it was focused on his ego/God complex and just borring. You could make a couple movies off that midget easy without some stupid love story
 
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Rabbit_Games

Rabbit_Games

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That would be my guess. Anyone interested in his story would have tried watching for exactly the same reason I did. I don't give a single fuck who he was fucking.
 
Homsar

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My thing is it was a stand alone book loosely based on events. Should have stayed but I won't complain I guess. Can't be worse than, RoP ect. The history is pretty interesting, I didn't know about history in Japan for the longest time
 
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Mahes

Mahes

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Homsar said:
Is that why that movie failed so bad. I thought it was focused on his ego/God complex and just borring. You could make a couple movies off that midget easy without some stupid love story
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You know his height was just under 5'6? For the time, he was actually above average height. Hell Tom Cruise is 5'7...

Now making a movie that makes him a midget with some stupid love stories might work.
 
spronk

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xqflkhvh4xsd1.jpeg
 
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Mist

Mist

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Jackie Treehorn said:
Shogun was not bad, and it was pretty / well shot, and it had some good acting, but it wasn’t *that* great. I’d never possibly watch it again. 10 years from now I’m not going to remember it like a Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Wire, whatever.

I could give a toss about awards and I don’t even watch a lot of TV in general, but if this show won THAT many awards I could only think it was in fact a weak year of TV.
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Being better than 95% of shit is fine.

Too many people are expecting every show, even good shows, to be the best thing they've ever watched. Shogun was easily in the top 3% of streaming hour dramas, just not in the top 1%.

If a show beats True Detective S1 for the rest of my life I'd be happily shocked.
 
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