Smartphones

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
19,235
15,625
It might be good enough for a smartphone but there is always a need for OIS.

Even lens on pro level Canon and Nikon full frame cameras have optical stabilisation and the new Sony full frame cameras have inbody six-axis stabilisation to help with hand stutter. The sensors in these cameras are many times bigger than what you are getting in smartphones too.
Seriously. The lack of OIS on phone cameras lately is really pissing me off. Goddamn I fucking miss my Lumia 920's camera. Fucking Microsoft, y u make OS so shitty?!

Completely different animals shooting with a "pro level" (or any DSLR) camera and a cell-phone. You shouldn't view your cell-phone camera as of much use beyond snap-shots and if you do try to use your phone for artistic or "professional level" photography you frankly have the wrong tool for the job.
Nobody is trying to use a smartphone for "professional" shots (well, nobody intelligent anyways). However, what is wrong with expecting your camera shots from your phone to not look like you just smeared grease over the damn lens, unless you mount the fucking thing to a tripod? I have nature shots from my Lumia 920 that look fucking incredible, considering they are from a mobile device. I tried shooting those same areas with a phone containing technology 2 years more "advanced" and they look terrible in comparison. Sure, the solution is to "carry a DSLR" on every fucking excursion into nature, but not only is that not always practical, I'm not trying to be a professional photographer. If 3 year old phone technology is able to take "comparable" shots to a DSLR, I don't understand why newer technology can't compete.

Since lack of OIS seems to be a dealbreaker for me (after having experienced what photos are like in a phone with it vs. a phone without it), what "current gen" phones contain OIS?
 

Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness
<Gold Donor>
15,026
13,124
Ordered up a pair of 6P's for the wife and I. My Mom, Dad and Brother also are all getting 5X's. All of us replacing N4's so that should be a significant upgrade. My biggest hope is the camera lives up to the hype.

We all also ended up being able to get an "instant invite" to Project Fi, before Google was aware we were purchasing hardware. Are invites just open now?
I went ahead and put in the order for a 5X too. Really just use my phone as a phone these days with some light web browsing or Podcasts while travelling. Plus the ship time for the 6P was still way outside of the window that I'll need a replacement phone / plan. Kind of looking forward to this, but not looking forward to paying for a phone and service for the first time in a decade.
 

jeydax

Death and Taxes
1,405
915
iPhone 6 Plus
Samsung Galaxy S6, Note 4, Note 5
Motorola/Google Nexus 6
BlackBerry Passport
Nokia Lumia 830
LG G4

To name a few...
 

Malkav

French Madman
2,686
1,583
Seriously. The lack of OIS on phone cameras lately is really pissing me off. Goddamn I fucking miss my Lumia 920's camera. Fucking Microsoft, y u make OS so shitty?!
Well, with Windows Phone 10 almost allowing apks outright (takes a bit of work to sideload atm though), I'm thinking it's starting to look less and less shitty.
 

opiate82

Bronze Squire
3,078
5
Seriously. The lack of OIS on phone cameras lately is really pissing me off. Goddamn I fucking miss my Lumia 920's camera. Fucking Microsoft, y u make OS so shitty?!



Nobody is trying to use a smartphone for "professional" shots (well, nobody intelligent anyways). However, what is wrong with expecting your camera shots from your phone to not look like you just smeared grease over the damn lens, unless you mount the fucking thing to a tripod? I have nature shots from my Lumia 920 that look fucking incredible, considering they are from a mobile device. I tried shooting those same areas with a phone containing technology 2 years more "advanced" and they look terrible in comparison. Sure, the solution is to "carry a DSLR" on every fucking excursion into nature, but not only is that not always practical, I'm not trying to be a professional photographer. If 3 year old phone technology is able to take "comparable" shots to a DSLR, I don't understand why newer technology can't compete.

Since lack of OIS seems to be a dealbreaker for me (after having experienced what photos are like in a phone with it vs. a phone without it), what "current gen" phones contain OIS?
Why in the hell would you need OIS for nature shots? Even if you were in a pretty dense forest there should be more than enough light with an F/2.0 lense that the shutter speed would be quick enough for even Michael J. Fox to take a clear picture without OIS. Unless you were manually slowing down the shutter-speed to doing artsy stuff with flowing water or something, but in that situation even OIS isn't going to be enough, youshouldbe using a tripod...

If your shots looked like you just smeared grease over the damn lense, maybe it's because there was grease smeared over the damn lense? There is very little protection from your lense getting dirty considering the environment a smart-phone lives in.

*edit: Googles response to the OIS question during their AMA today:

DB > We've done a bunch of things to provide image stabilization: 1. The Nexus 6P/5X has a large 1.55um pixel camera and the amount of motion blur due to hand-shake is lower , when you have large pixels. 2. We have a feature we call "lucky shot" internally. When you take a picture, behind the scenes, we select the best of 3 bursts of images. 3. When you use video, we have optic-flow-based image stabilization. 4. When you use SmartBurst, we select the best image from the burst (for example a shot with eyes open).
Also dxomark review for the photography from the 6P:Google Nexus 6P review: Serious contender for mobile photography - DxOMark
 

Pizoi

Golden Squire
317
22
I have the fingerprint scanner on my Galaxy S6 Edge. I too was looking forward to it, but ended up turning it off. You need to place your finger just right or it will not recognize. If you fail 3x, you are forced to enter your manual password. After getting 3x fail lockout multiple times, I just gave up and disabled the fingerprint scanner. Other brands might do it better, but the Galaxy version needs more polish.
I have the same problem with my S6 (non Edge). I'm fairly sure it's mostly due to my case though. It has a lip that sits a few mm above the glass, making it a bit awkward for my thumb to hit the scanner properly. It's an Otter Box Defender or something, I should probably just replace it since having flaps over the charging and headphone jack is annoying.
 

Crone

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
9,714
3,211
I have much better luck with the finger print scanner on my Note 5 after redoing my finger prints and moving my finger around a bit. Unlike the iPhone that gives you a picture of your print and tells you where you need to put your finger Samsung doesn't do that.

Anyone have any experience with smart network switch option? I'm having issues because I have multiple WiFi signals in my house and it won't switch between them even though I'm right next to the other router. I have to manually switch.

Will smart network switch go to data. Then auto connect back to the best WiFi? Or is it only to switch to data and only data?
 
Got my fi invite a month ago and signed up immediately. So far it's been awesome. The one time I contacted support there was zero wait time, just insta-connect to a guy who helped me out. No dropped calls yet (I don't make a lot though). I live in a smaller town and I've noticed lately it's auto connecting to more wifi hot spots - so it appears that the database grows at a decent clip.

Also today I got a package in the mail from google with a phone case, head-phones, and portable charger - all for free, just a thank you for "being there from the beginning".
 

Kedwyn

Silver Squire
3,915
80
Moto Pure is boxed up and ready to go back to Moto. Nexus P on order.

I really fucked up good today though. I have my OnePlus One which I'm using and uses a Micro sim. I bought a cutter on ebay to make it a nano. Worked great in the Moto Pure, except the pure isn't really that impressive to me so now I have a nano sim that won't fit in my OPO.

So anyway, I was dicking around with both phones. Pulled the now nano sim and stuck it in the included micro adapter. Not sure why but I decided to jam that as is into my OPO not really thinking because it did kind of look like the sim tray for the OPO. Needless to say it got stuck. Really stuck and after many hours of trying to gently fish it out I just took the entire phone a part. Entire phone. Managed to separate the stuck card and tray. Also managed to accidently break the microscopic ribbon connecting my power button. So lots of fun there.

Put everything together, get the phone fired up by using copper wire to make a temp connection and stick my sim in properly this time. Doh, the fucking sim slot is hosed. Apparently a common problem on the OPO for people that try to use a nano sim with adapter. Fail on my part for not reading first.

So now I'm sporting my back up Note 2 until my Nexus P arrives. I almost took the pure out of the box again. It's sitting on the table, tempting me to do so and use it. However it's destiny lies back at Motorola.
 

Lenaldo

Golden Knight of the Realm
324
108
I exclusively use the finger print scanner on my phone. What I did was record multiples of the same finger but with different orientations (up and down.. Horizontal.. And diagonal)... I think I get 1 retry a day... Very surprised by the accuracy of the thing. So if you haven't tried the multiple finger print records.. Maybe give that a go
 

Jysin

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,457
4,345
I exclusively use the finger print scanner on my phone. What I did was record multiples of the same finger but with different orientations (up and down.. Horizontal.. And diagonal)... I think I get 1 retry a day... Very surprised by the accuracy of the thing. So if you haven't tried the multiple finger print records.. Maybe give that a go
I might have to try this over again. Thanks for the feedback.
 

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
19,235
15,625
Why in the hell would you need OIS for nature shots? Even if you were in a pretty dense forest there should be more than enough light with an F/2.0 lense that the shutter speed would be quick enough for even Michael J. Fox to take a clear picture without OIS. Unless you were manually slowing down the shutter-speed to doing artsy stuff with flowing water or something, but in that situation even OIS isn't going to be enough, youshouldbe using a tripod...
Sure, I may notneedOIS, but I've seen the image quality in camera shots with it and without it, in all sorts of various lighting situations and the non-OIS images look noticeably worse every time. The motion blur/general blurriness on non-OIS images versus OIS is off the charts. If I want to snap 40 fucking pictures of the same shot, sure, I can get a non-OIS image to look similar/the same as an OIS, but why should I have to? It isn't like this technology is new or doesn't exist, yet phone manufacturers keep leaving out that feature on their camera's.

I'm really curious to see if google does solve most of the issues with non-OIS on the 5X and 6P. I'd really like to grab either phone, but if the camera situation is at all similar to my Moto X, forget it. Maybe I just got spoiled by my 920, but I can't stand having an average phone camera now.

If your shots looked like you just smeared grease over the damn lense, maybe it's because there was grease smeared over the damn lense? There is very little protection from your lense getting dirty considering the environment a smart-phone lives in.
Well, jeez! Why didn't I think to just clean the lens of my phone's camera! That definitely wasn't the first thing I tried to correct..
 

opiate82

Bronze Squire
3,078
5
Sure, I may notneedOIS, but I've seen the image quality in camera shots with it and without it, in all sorts of various lighting situations and the non-OIS images look noticeably worse every time. The motion blur/general blurriness on non-OIS images versus OIS is off the charts. If I want to snap 40 fucking pictures of the same shot, sure, I can get a non-OIS image to look similar/the same as an OIS, but why should I have to? It isn't like this technology is new or doesn't exist, yet phone manufacturers keep leaving out that feature on their camera's.

I'm really curious to see if google does solve most of the issues with non-OIS on the 5X and 6P. I'd really like to grab either phone, but if the camera situation is at all similar to my Moto X, forget it. Maybe I just got spoiled by my 920, but I can't stand having an average phone camera now.
If you think OIS helps make photos look better across the board I don't think you quite understand how OIS works. About the only time OIS is helpful for photography is in situations where the shutter speed is slowed down and you are shooting a non-moving object. Here are some examples shot from my N4, which does NOT have OIS and is pretty universally accepted as being a subpar camera phone:

First shot is a panorama I took. Because, when you are taking a panorama shot you are moving the phone the entire time you'd think OIS would be helpful but as you can see, I got the shot just fine without it.
rrr_img_111550.jpg

Next is a shot inside a dimly-lit bar. You can see, because of the lack of lighting, my shutter speed was slow enough that there was significant motion blur on the waitress who was walking by, but my focus point (which was the beer list) was still in focus. There is significant noise in the photo, but that is a product of the sensor, not a lack of OIS. Yes, the beer glass is out of focus, but that is due to the shallow depth-of-field which is a result of the lens and it's F/2.0 aperture.
rrr_img_111551.jpg

Here are two shots, one where OIS would have possibly helped, and the next one that shows I got the shot anyways. Again, significant noise but that is not related to a lack of OIS.
rrr_img_111552.jpg
rrr_img_111553.jpg

Finally one more where my shutter speed was slower than normal. You can see motion blur on my daughters left hand, but the rest of the shot is sharp and in focus, OIS was not needed.
rrr_img_111554.jpg

Now if you were shooting on a DSLR what OIS allows you to do is drop the shutter speed a little bit more than normal while still getting the shot. The reason you'd do this is if you were closing the aperture to increase the depth of field, which is an artistic choice and not an option on the vast majority of cell-phone cameras since they have fixed apertures. Now why they aren't including OIS, I'm not sure. Maybe it is just to keep costs down, maybe it requires a bigger lense bump which affects form factor, I don't know. But people (not just you Kirun, it has pretty much been all over the reader comments) are acting like lack OIS is a deal-breaker when in reality it has a very limited scope of usefulness in photography, and that usefulness on a cell phone cameraSHOULDbe more than compensated for with better sensors.

There is one situation where I wonder if the lack of OIS will be very noticeable, and that is for video. For the Nexus line, Google has claimed to solve that via software (and EIS on the 6P). I'm a little more skeptical on their claim the video will be fine without it, we will see. For me personally, I don't care about video that much.

 

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,738
7,766
Moto Pure is boxed up and ready to go back to Moto. Nexus P on order.

I really fucked up good today though. I have my OnePlus One which I'm using and uses a Micro sim. I bought a cutter on ebay to make it a nano. Worked great in the Moto Pure, except the pure isn't really that impressive to me so now I have a nano sim that won't fit in my OPO.
What was unimpressive about the Pure compared to what you like about the Nexus P? Or did the delay on the ordering process sour you to the whole thing?
 

Rais

Trakanon Raider
1,293
657
Hi,
Now that you're signed up for Project Fi, all that's left is for us to ship your order. We're on it, and we'll follow up with a separate shipping confirmation.
We're also excited to let you know that you'll be receiving a $50 Google Play credit and a 50% off discount code for a Nexus 5X case from the Google Store. You will receive this in a separate email once your phone ships, so keep an eye on your inbox.
The cases look nice and not 50+ to make the discount pointless. Nice stuff.
 

Kedwyn

Silver Squire
3,915
80
What was unimpressive about the Pure compared to what you like about the Nexus P? Or did the delay on the ordering process sour you to the whole thing?
The delay was a little ridiculous. I'm very concerned about development for the device since Lenno pretty much gutted Moto just before release of the device and no telling how speedy updates will be.

My unit had some marks under the screen, likely glue or something, that I could see at 25% brightness or so and below. So it was going back regardless. Instead of exchanging it, I decided to go with the Nexus P which in all fairness was on order before I even got the Pure in since it took them just short of a month to get me the stupid thing.

Regardless of that it was going back anyway. I wasn't impressed with the device at all. The damn thing got hot anytime the GPU would get used, got really hot charging and the battery life was pretty bad. I could tame the battery life by turning off everything Moto related and under clock the GPU but that isn't a real world solution unless you only use your phone for email and texting. Which all the more power to you, any device these days can fit those needs.

Battery life was pretty bad even using applications like Chrome and Maps. Never mind gaming. The phone would get fairly warm. Gaming would make it very hot. About 20% hotter than my OPO. There was also some micro lag that I'd get from time to time scrolling. I also noticed the screen would become unresponsive when browsing as the pages partially load. Open chrome, load a page and as its loading there is a period there where the screen refuses to accept input. The pure camera in low light is pretty piss poor. Perfect lighting is pretty awesome.

Really the bottom line on the Pure is the screen is very pretty. The anemic GPU sucks some serious battery anytime it has to do math for all those pixels and that includes web browsing or simple maps use. It has a SD slot which is a plus but its a mediocre phone from a spotty company (lenno) who just recently gutted Moto and its work force which puts updates in question. XDA is pretty light on anything development wise and its not likley to pick up with the Nexus P kind of blowing the doors off the Pure.

The Nexus P costs $50 more after the play credit. Upgrading from 32 gb to 64 onboard as well. So its basically the same price.

Gorgeous Amoled
Finger print scanner
Guaranteed updates
Guaranteed Heavy Development on XDA
Better SOC, no heat issues as reported by plenty of testing sites and much better performance
Better camera as reported
More premium as reported by everyone that has touched it

No brainer to skip the Pure. Moto should of released it with a 1080p screen and 3 months earlier. Going up against the nexus was a stupid plan and not having supply lines in place and pushing orders back so the return window was in line with the Nexus date was just asking for returns.
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
<Silver Donator>
14,670
2,528
If you think OIS helps make photos look better across the board I don't think you quite understand how OIS works.
That is a lot of typing to waste on Kirun, especially when he has already explained that he can see the OISness all over his pictures.
 

opiate82

Bronze Squire
3,078
5
That is a lot of typing to waste on Kirun, especially when he has already explained that he can see the OISness all over his pictures.
You may be right, but similar comments about the lack of OIS are rampant across the reader comments from the various tech blogs covering the Nexus announcement so I thought it was worth diving into the detail.

In other news, details are coming out about LG's new selfie-taking machine, the V10. Article I read mentions "image stabilization" but didn't elaborate if it was optical or electronic. Was mostly in reference to it's video-taking capabilities anyways.

Hands-on with LGs dual-screen, dual-selfie camera V10