So, Hep C cured.

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Siddar

Siddar

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I really see no difference between Apple making billions of there latest I product, the guy who wins a 100 million in lottery, and a comapny that cures hep C making tens of billion while saving society 100 billions in the process.

In the end it comes down to simple envy with your belief that making X amount is ok but making over X is wrong but having zero rational basis for your completely arbitrary X number.
 
Araysar

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Medicine is a common good, Apple tablets are not - Siddar is too stupid to know the difference.
 
Siddar

Siddar

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Araysar_sl said:
Medicine is a common good, Apple tablets are not - Siddar is too stupid to know the difference.
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Actually I understand the difference better then you, Apple products are completely societal neutral, while cure for Hep C is of immense economic value to society. The aurgement for profits here favors the drug company they have actually made something worthwhile by every measure you can apply. Your logic implies you think its ok to make billions selling what are basically toys for adults. But those doing something that improves the human condition and will save society money in very short order shouldn't be allowed to profit from doing so.
 
Chanur

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What benefit is it if insurance decides not to cover it due to cost and most people can't afford it?
 
Khane

Khane

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Where's Godwin when you need him? This thread is begging for a nazi analogy.
 
1

1987

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lurkingdirk_sl said:
You fuck retards? Dude, that's not cool.
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Their fault. They wouldn't be retarded if they supplemented with garlic... I just coat my dick in garlic oil before I knock bitches up. In like 20 years you can blame the onslaught of superchildren on my unlimited garlic weiner.
 
Araxen

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1987_sl said:
Their fault. They wouldn't be retarded if they supplemented with garlic... I just coat my dick in garlic oil before I knock bitches up. In like 20 years you can blame the onslaught of superchildren on my unlimited garlic weiner.
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+1 Great Post
 
Araysar

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Siddar_sl said:
Actually I understand the difference better then you, Apple products are completely societal neutral, while cure for Hep C is of immense economic value to society. The aurgement for profits here favors the drug company they have actually made something worthwhile by every measure you can apply. Your logic implies you think its ok to make billions selling what are basically toys for adults. But those doing something that improves the human condition and will save society money in very short order shouldn't be allowed to profit from doing so.
Click to expand...
1. Can you also understand the difference between "then" and "than"?
2. Argument for profit never applies to common good such as medicine or education. Yes, you should be able to charge whatever you want for toys which are optional to living. You shouldn't be able to gouge whatever you want from people who's options are either to pay whatever is being charged for the medicine or die. That's not free market. That's extortion.
3. Additionally, I never said you shouldnt be able to make a profit, so don't lie about my position. But the company shouldnt be able to charge $100,000 for treatment either. There is room for company to make a reasonable profit which isn't 40,000% profit margin, and for people get reasonable access to life-saving medicine.

I understand that you're too fucking stupid to understand this and that's OK. This is why this has been codified into law at the very basic level as price gouging laws.
 
D

Dabamf_sl

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This thread has become beyond saving in a matter of a day. Hep c is cured and people immediately start calling "overpriced!" and "monopoly!" The Louis ck quote applies perfectly: "how does the world owe you something you didn't even know existed 5 seconds ago"

Heres an idea: let's make them charge much less for the drug. We can cure the world of hep c. A pretty awesome outcome. Then when the next huge cure is discovered we ca--oh what's that, there won't be a next one because we stole the last one from its owners for the "public good"? You mean patents exist to encourage people to develop new things? What the fuck that's unheard of

And lol at polio guy. What if they charged 84k for polio? Well, they'd have made a shitload of money and polio would have existed for 20 extra years. Then the patent expires and generics say hello and the world is cured. What's that, patents expire? Who knew.

God damn evil pharmos making wonderful life saving drugs. I hate them
 
Araysar

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Dabamf_sl said:
This thread has become beyond saving in a matter of a day. Hep c is cured and people immediately start calling "overpriced!" and "monopoly!" The Louis ck quote applies perfectly: "how does the world owe you something you didn't even know existed 5 seconds ago"

Heres an idea: let's make them charge much less for the drug. We can cure the world of hep c. A pretty awesome outcome. Then when the next huge cure is discovered we ca--oh what's that, there won't be a next one because we stole the last one from its owners for the "public good"? You mean patents exist to encourage people to develop new things? What the fuck that's unheard of

And lol at polio guy. What if they charged 84k for polio? Well, they'd have made a shitload of money and polio would have existed for 20 extra years. Then the patent expires and generics say hello and the world is cured. What's that, patents expire? Who knew.

God damn evil pharmos making wonderful life saving drugs. I hate them
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How did we "steal" it from them? They still made a reasonable profit. Are you saying that big pharma cant exist without gouging and raping its customers for 20 years at a time?
 
Siddar

Siddar

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Chanur_sl said:
What benefit is it if insurance decides not to cover it due to cost and most people can't afford it?
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Already established the cost of not providing the drug is higher then the cost of providing it. So the entire line of thought doesn't apply. End result is that curing Hep C will result in both government and health insurance industry saving money after a few years of initial expense then recovering that entire initial cost soon after that. After that they simply pocket 50 billion a year in money they would have spent treating Hep C after 2020.
 
Siddar

Siddar

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Araysar_sl said:
1. Can you also understand the difference between "then" and "than"?
2. Argument for profit never applies to common good such as medicine or education. Yes, you should be able to charge whatever you want for toys which are optional to living. You shouldn't be able to gouge whatever you want from people who's options are either to pay whatever is being charged for the medicine or die. That's not free market. That's extortion.
3. Additionally, I never said you shouldnt be able to make a profit, so don't lie about my position. But the company shouldnt be able to charge $100,000 for treatment either. There is room for company to make a reasonable profit which isn't 40,000% profit margin, and for people get reasonable access to life-saving medicine.

I understand that you're too fucking stupid to understand this and that's OK. This is why this has been codified into law at the very basic level as price gouging laws.
Click to expand...
So government workers shouldn't get a pay check because they are providing for the common good right? Your argument is bullshit and simply comes down to they shouldn't make x profit because you say.

Your position is they should only be allowed to make X profit with X being a number you pulled out of your ass. Mean while you have no problem with government and and healthcare industry taking the 50 billion a year saving from this drug and in the case private healthcare sector adding that money to there profits for you know the common good service they provide.
 
BoldW

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Plenty of companies that provide public services are regulated, as they generally are monopolies, or with very little competition. They don't stop providing their services or expanding, and other companies still enter the markets. What exactly is their ROI here? By any measure 10% is phenominal if you have very low risk. If we allow for 15%, what does that make the cost of the drug? By anyone standards, 15% return will have investors flocking to them to create the next great drug. Just don't think that 500% ROI is "fair" in any sense or way.
 
Araysar

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Siddar_sl said:
So government workers shouldn't get a pay check because they are providing for the common good right? Your argument is bullshit and simply comes down to they shouldn't make x profit because you say.

Your position is they should only be allowed to make X profit with X being a number you pulled out of your ass. Mean while you have no problem with government and and healthcare industry taking the 50 billion a year saving from this drug and in the case private healthcare sector adding that money to there profits for you know the common good service they provide.
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Are government workers being paid 10000% above market rate? C'mon - take this to its logical conclusion. Your average drug development costs 5 billion dollars. Shit, lets say 6 billion for easier math. There are 150,000,000 people infected with Hep C right now. So to break even, each person in the world would have to pay $40 for the cure for the pharma company to break even. Lets say we want them to make a nice profit to reward them for their risk and their work. Is 100% profit good enough for you? To make it 12 billion dollars in total? lets say it is for now. So it will cost each person $80 then. Is the cure going to be sold for $80? Nah, it will be sold for $50,000 so they can prey on the desperation of people.

X number is based on what a company needs to continue to expand and fund its operations without gouging its customers. It's hardly pulled out of ass.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0105140107.htm

Looks the the pharma industry isnt hurting for cash at all when they spend 13% of what they make on research and twice that number on marketing and advertising
 
Siddar

Siddar

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No one will make new drugs at 15% ROI the drug failures will eat that profit completely.

Also investors wont flock to a 15% ROI on a drug that takes 10+ years to get to market just buy a 10 year bond and make 5% RoI with no risk that comes in every year.
 
Siddar

Siddar

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Araysar_sl said:
Are government workers being paid 10000% above market rate? C'mon - take this to its logical conclusion. Your average drug development costs 5 billion dollars. Shit, lets say 6 billion for easier math. There are 150,000,000 people infected with Hep C right now. So to break even, each person in the world would have to pay $40 for the cure for the pharma company to break even. Lets say we want them to make a nice profit to reward them for their risk and their work. Is 100% profit good enough for you? To make it 12 billion dollars in total? lets say it is for now. So it will cost each person $80 then. Is the cure going to be sold for $80? Nah, it will be sold for $50,000 so they can prey on the desperation of people.

X number is based on what a company needs to continue to expand and fund its operations without gouging its customers. It's hardly pulled out of ass.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0105140107.htm

Looks the the pharma industry isnt hurting for cash at all when they spend 13% of what they make on research and twice that number on marketing and advertising
Click to expand...
Now answer how do you define market rate for a companies profit? How does this Drug compare profit margin wise to say Windows & operating system? In regards to profit margin for capital invested?
 
Araysar

Loser Araysar

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Siddar_sl said:
No one will make new drugs at 15% ROI the drug failures will eat that profit completely.
Click to expand...
LOL, that statement makes 0 sense. Statements like these make it absolutely clear you don't know anything about business. The failures are factored into the ROI, retard.

Also investors wont flock to a 15% ROI on a drug that takes 10+ years to get to market just buy a 10 year bond and make 5% RoI with no risk that comes in every year.
Click to expand...
Investors dont invest into drugs one by one - they invest into companies, and the share value (though related to drug performance) is not pegged to the revenue from a particular drug.

How are you this dumb?
 
D

Dabamf_sl

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BoldW_sl said:
Plenty of companies that provide public services are regulated, as they generally are monopolies, or with very little competition. They don't stop providing their services or expanding, and other companies still enter the markets. What exactly is their ROI here? By any measure 10% is phenominal if you have very low risk. If we allow for 15%, what does that make the cost of the drug? By anyone standards, 15% return will have investors flocking to them to create the next great drug. Just don't think that 500% ROI is "fair" in any sense or way.
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They own it. It's theirs. If they want to charge $1,000,000,000,000,000 per pill so no one buys it and then they write the formula on a piece of paper, destroy any record elsewhere, then burn that paper in front of every hep c person in the world, that's their right. That's private property and is the foundation of a society that makes great things like this. You can't have your cake and eat it too. This is reality, not your faggot fantasy land.

They also aren't a monopoly. There are other drug companies and nothing is stopping them from making a cure too, except, you know, its difficult. A monopoly would be if they are the only drug company in the world and even after patent expiration no one else can make it.

Do you guys have even a high school education?
 
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