Sports writer kills himself, leaves behind website describing how and why

Tanoomba

Tanoomba

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Never mind "owing something to society". He was 60, he paid his dues. Death is terrifying, messy, ugly, and causes pain and suffering for all involved regardless of how it occurs. Why the fuck not choose to take control over when and how it takes place? Why look at it as an act of cowardice or selfishness when it is more an act of personal responsibility? What's "selfish" about it anyway? What did he gain or, to be more specific, deprive anyone else of? The wealth he left will help others more than it would have helped him. His organs may help save lives instead of slowly rotting away in his body.

Were some friends and family hurt by his passing? Probably, but they would have been hurt by his passing anyway when it happened 10, 20, 30 years in the future (if they hadn't died by that time, allowing him to feel the hurt instead). The only reason suicide seems "worse" is because it is so often the result of despair, hopelessness and incredible pain. In this guy's case, it wasn't. His life wasn't terrible, he wasn't in pain and his friends and family need not feel a single pang of guilt for anything they could have done to "save" him. If they feel in any way hurt or confused, they can read his deeply personal and informative explanation he provided for that purpose. His life wasn't a "waste" in any measurable sense of the word. He lived what he considered to be a full life and, what's more, was able to spend his last couple of years working on what he considered to be his "legacy". How many people get to do that before they die instead of waiting as their bodily functions start failing one by one?

He hurt no one. He took control of his own death, the act of which had exclusively positive ramifications on society as a whole. Suicide has a stigma, that's the only reason a lot of you are on your high horse about this. I wonder how many of those criticizing actually read his site.
 
OneofOne

OneofOne

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Who gives a shit about your respect? Just get the fuck outta the way and let them do their thing.

You all are too busy making this about YOURSELVES and imaginary family figures you know nothing about. Stop trying to tell other people how to live (or not) their lives. Think what you want, have any opinion you want, but just get the fuck outta the way.
 
khalid

khalid

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Tanoomba_sl said:
Suicide has a stigma, that's the only reason a lot of you are on your high horse about this.
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Yes, suicide has a stigma and that is a good thing for the most part. That makes it less likely in a moment of depression that people will do it. As for his family being hurt when he dies anyway, so it doesnt matter, seriously? So additional time spent with family and friends is meaningless?
 
Tanoomba

Tanoomba

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khalid_sl said:
Yes, suicide has a stigma and that is a good thing for the most part. That makes it less likely in a moment of depression that people will do it. As for his family being hurt when he dies anyway, so it doesnt matter, seriously? So additional time spent with family and friends is meaningless?
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When do we reach the point where we have spent "enough" time with family and friends? Isn't that just one of those things that, no matter how long we live, we would always want more of? It's the same as wanting to see the next technological breakthrough, or the next great movie, or the next societal shift. There will always be more to see, more to do. ALWAYS. Martin realized this and made peace with it. The closest family he had were his siblings, and they lived in different cities. How often did they see each other up to now? How often would they have seen each other over the next, say, ten years? Isn't it all just a little arbitrary?

Again, when we have children or people who otherwise depend on us, we kind of are socially obligated to stick around in the world of the living and live up to our responsibilities. Martin made it clear that suicide would never have been an option if that had been the case for him. But it wasn't. He's not making some kind of statement that everyone should consider taking control of their own deaths. He just explained, in great detail, why under his circumstances he believed that was the best choice for him. I say good for him.
 
iannis

iannis

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OneofOne_sl said:
Who gives a shit about your respect? Just get the fuck outta the way and let them do their thing.

You all are too busy making this about YOURSELVES and imaginary family figures you know nothing about. Stop trying to tell other people how to live (or not) their lives. Think what you want, have any opinion you want, but just get the fuck outta the way.
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That's perfectly fine up until this asshole writes a treatsie on "Why I do not suck but still must die". Kill yourself if you wanna, whatever. But asshole, other people can use the lumber.

You're applying a different standard to this dickhead, and that's exactly what he aimed for. He did it himself.

This is incredibly offensive when you have some experience in dealing with the terminally ill. We're actually being quite reserved in respect to the resident people who haven't seen it yet. Hopefully they never will.
 
bixxby

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He wanted to write some shit before he took the ultimate plunge. It's the damn internet, are you afraid the it's going to run out of room with all the tranny porn & my little pony fanfics?
 
Tanoomba

Tanoomba

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My Little Pony fanfics? On theinternet?

(scurries away excitedly)
 
iannis

iannis

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And that's exactly the respect it deserves. Put it next to the Brony sex comics.

Are we not allowed to think maybe something good can come from all of this anymore? Or is that pre-internet thinking.
 
Pemulis

Pemulis

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want to be famous? mission accomplished. one less idiot to breathe our air.

PS: Tanoomba, I think you've spent enough time posting here (and with family and friends). now go do what is right.
 
chaos

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Tanoomba_sl said:
Sorry, I forgot to include "...that would have been hurt anyway".
I did actually mention that deathalwaysinvolves pain and sufferingfor all involved.
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Do you think that the pain inflicted from a loved one passing away or getting hit by a bus or whatever is the same as a loved one committing suicide?
 
Tanoomba

Tanoomba

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pemulis_sl said:
want to be famous? mission accomplished. one less idiot to breathe our air.

PS: Tanoomba, I think you've spent enough time posting here (and with family and friends). now go do what is right.
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Ha ha! See, I actually do have people who depend on me, and I have yet much to live for. I haven't finished a Final Fantasy since VII for Christ's sake.
 
bixxby

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chaos_sl said:
Do you think that the pain inflicted from a loved one passing away or getting hit by a bus or whatever is the same as a loved one committing suicide?
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I would reckon the biggest pain with suicide besides the death is the why. This guy pretty much told you why in great detail.
 
Tanoomba

Tanoomba

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chaos_sl said:
Do you think that the pain inflicted from a loved one passing away or getting hit by a bus or whatever is the same as a loved one committing suicide?
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I addressed this too. It's almost as though I actually thought about what I was saying before I said it.

I said suicide is usually "worse" because of what we associate it with (pain, suffering, hopelessness and despair). None of these were the case for Martin. That doesn't mean friends and family might not still be hurt or confused by his suicide. Lucky for them, he went through the trouble of providing an in-depth explanation for his actions that anybody who cared about him would have no qualms about reading. Having done so, they could at least come to the conclusion that he was of sound mind and body, that he valued the time he had spent with them, that he hoped he had had a positive influence on their lives, and that he made a choice about how to handle his own death that he hoped those closest to him would be able to come to terms with in the end. Pain and confusion has been minimized, probably to the point where his death hurt less than it would have had it occurred by accident or by deterioration caused by age. Everybody wins.

Edit: Bixxby said it better, and with less words.
 
chaos

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bixxby_sl said:
I would reckon the biggest pain with suicide besides the death is the why. This guy pretty much told you why in great detail.
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Would you buy that? I don't think I would. I would probably want to think that no one close to me was so vapid that "I will one day become old" is their reason for suicide. People internalize this shit inevitably, it becomes about what they could have done or didn't do or whatever.
 
chaos

chaos

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Tanoomba_sl said:
I addressed this too. It's almost as though I actually thought about what I was saying before I said it.

I said suicide is usually "worse" because of what we associate it with (pain, suffering, hopelessness and despair). None of these were the case for Martin. That doesn't mean friends and family might not still be hurt or confused by his suicide. Lucky for them, he went through the trouble of providing an in-depth explanation for his actions that anybody who cared about him would have no qualms about reading. Having done so, they could at least come to the conclusion that he was of sound mind and body, that he valued the time he had spent with them, that he hoped he had had a positive influence on their lives, and that he made a choice about how to handle his own death that he hoped those closest to him would be able to come to terms with in the end. Pain and confusion has been minimized, probably to the point where his death hurt less than it would have had it occurred by accident or by deterioration caused by age. Everybody wins.
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No, you entirely miss the point of why suicide is "worse" from the survivor's perspective.
 
Pasteton

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People kill themselves all the time, I couldnt give a shit. That is totally up to them and their justifications. What is aggravating here is this joker posts a public explanation which is basically garbage but somehow people construe his views as logical.

Again, using his logic, people should kill themselves whenever they feel theyre 'purpose' is served. Hell, I may retire at 40. I have no kids and no dependents. Let me pull out my Bible, the Manley Manifesto - ok great, time to off myself before I can become a burden to society.

You think you have a right to end your life when you are ready, and it's no one's business but yours? Fine, great. But don't stamp an age to it. If you are ok with him offing himself at 60, then you better damn well be fine with it at 50 as well, because its the same damn logic. If not then its just hypocritical.
 
Tanoomba

Tanoomba

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Pasteton_sl said:
Again, using his logic, people should kill themselves whenever they feel theyre 'purpose' is served.
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That wasn't his logic at all.

Pasteton_sl said:
Hell, I may retire at 40. I have no kids and no dependents. Let me pull out my Bible, the Manley Manifesto - ok great, time to off myself before I can become a burden to society.
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And the negative consequence would be...?

Pasteton_sl said:
You think you have a right to end your life when you are ready, and it's no one's business but yours? Fine, great. But don't stamp an age to it. If you are ok with him offing himself at 60, then you better damn well be fine with it at 50 as well, because its the same damn logic. If not then its just hypocritical.
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Nobody's "stamping an age on it". The reason 60 worked for Martin was explained on his site (under the 'Why 60?" section if I'm not mistaken).
 
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