How do you keep missing my point? Let me make this very clear for you -
Survivors consider suicide "worse" because of their perspective of it, as I said in the other post they internalize what happened and view it from their own vantage point. The pain, suffering, hopelessness, and despair you mention could apply to any number of different kinds of death. With suicide people make a decision and the survivors are left to reckon with that decision, and inevitably interject themselves into the process.
Absolutely.
No. That's murder. you can make decisions about your own death, not someone else's.
I guess we established "murder"?
Of course! But with Martin's web page, he has the greatest amount of influence possible over their "vantage points". In any case, he has a far greater degree of control over how people view his death than he would have if he had just waited for it to happen. He didn't just abandon those close to him to "reckon with that decision" on their own, he took them by the hand and gave them a guided tour of not only his death but his entire life! As strangers we could see this as egotistical and selfish but don't you think those who knew him might appreciate that a lot more?
Some might, and some might view it as insulting. Of course the survivors are left to deal with it on their own. So he wrote some shit down, each one of them will interpret that shit from their own perspective. That is all reaction to death is. He basically wrote a really long suicide note. And everyone left alive deals with his actions.
What do those left alive have to "deal with"? We're all going to have to "deal with" the deaths of everyone we know who dies before we do. It's never easy. Never. At least under these circumstances it was controlled and explained. If you're just gonna keep coming back with "Yeah, but it's still hard for those he left behind", I'm going to keep coming back with "Yeah, but italways is."
Dude, I don't want you to think I'm mocking you. This is a very valid point. When i told this story to my mother she said "He might have yet found his true love who could have opened a whole new chapter of his life", and sure, he might have had god knows how many new and unique and worthwhile experiences left in his life. But that will always be true, no matter how people die.
Yes. Yes you should.
See, I don't see any insult to the dead at all. They had nothing to do with Martin's decision, nor should they have. Despite death being literally the only guarantee in life, it's an extremely difficult (if not impossible) topic for human beings to come to terms with. We each try to make sense of it in our own highly personal ways (well, those of us who don't let religion tell us how to do it, anyway) and, not surprisingly, many of use come to vastly different conclusions about what death means to us. For Martin, nothing was more terrifying than a death he had no control over. Maybe you don't get that, maybe I don't get that, but to him that meant a lot and helped shape his decisions about how to end his own life. As much as you act as though he's pushing some kind of pro-suicide agenda, his view of death ("Might as well go out on my own terms") makes no less sense to me than your "You don't know what's coming, so why quit now?" perspective. Neither is more valid than the other, except in your respective minds.
Yeah, that is my issue with this guy and his "defenders". His life wasn't anywhere near over. He could have done some good with his life if he had wanted to, instead he just quit. WHICH IS FINE, just don't try and turn him into some hero. Guy was just a quitter, albeit a very thorough quitter of everything.
It doesn't, it just made me think about it when I otherwise would have been fantasizing about Remy LeCroix in a hula hoop or something.
You seem to be of the opinion that the explanation just wipes away any undue negativity or stigma that goes along with suicide. You keep saying something along the lines of "it's never easy", and that is true. But it doesn't always involve a choice on the part of the deceased that the living will never fully understand. He's a grown ass man, or was, and he can do whatever he wants with his life. He wants to throw it away, go for it. But I don't have to like or support the idea of what he is doing here. Writing the world's longest suicide note doesn't change my impression of what he did. He threw away a gift that others would kill for. He's an asshole.
So, are all soldiers in all the world's militaries also mentally ill since they have the capacity to end another human being's life?
I'll regret to the day I die that I couldn't face my grandmother or grandfather on their deathbeds.