Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

Running Dog_sl · May 4, 2016

Variise_sl said:
Great now get out of your ship/vehicle. Oh...

You kind of can, through the camera mode or if you have VR, although it's a disembodied experience. There's no reason to do so though other than have a look at the scenery or get to grips with just how large the ships when you can see and walk around them in "real" 3d.

It's a bit like wanting to have your pilot walk from the briefing room across the runway and climb into the cockpit every time you take off in a flight sim; the point of a flight sim is flying, not walking about. Arguably that's one of the reasons why the surface driving is Elite is like running around a city in GTA: it's possible, but it's not what you'd want to do unless you're forced into it. That doesn't stop people demanding walking about as a feature; each to his own I guess.

Faith · May 4, 2016

Variise_sl said:
Great now get out of your ship/vehicle. Oh...

I think the chances of people getting out of ships and vehicles in Elite before PRE-PRE-PRE-Infinity Alpha Star Citizen are pretty good.

*Edit: I mean before 2029 or so when Star Citizen is released as a game.

Variise · May 4, 2016

Running Dog_sl said:
You kind of can, through the camera mode or if you have VR, although it's a disembodied experience. There's no reason to do so though other than have a look at the scenery or get to grips with just how large the ships when you can see and walk around them in "real" 3d.

It's a bit like wanting to have your pilot walk from the briefing room across the runway and climb into the cockpit every time you take off in a flight sim; the point of a flight sim is flying, not walking about. Arguably that's one of the reasons why the surface driving is Elite is like running around a city in GTA: it's possible, but it's not what you'd want to do unless you're forced into it. That doesn't stop people demanding walking about as a feature; each to his own I guess.

Didn't know that. That's kind of neat.

People probably shouldn't demand the devs work on walking around content. Unless the engine is built for it they will have to rebuild the entire engine from the ground up to take a character into account and all of the challenges that entails. It's several orders of magnitude more difficult to pull off. This is partly why the two games are not comparable and IMO can co-exit just fine. They can scratch a different itch for different people and that's probably a good thing for gaming overall.

Variise · May 4, 2016

Faith_sl said:
I think the chances of people getting out of ships and vehicles in Elite before PRE-PRE-PRE-Infinity Alpha Star Citizen are pretty good.

*Edit: I mean before 2029 or so when Star Citizen is released as a game.

Considering people could do that already in SC in Dec 2015 when SC 2.0 launched you are late to your own pity party pal.

Faith · May 6, 2016

Variise_sl said:
Considering people could do that already in SC in Dec 2015 when SC 2.0 launched you are late to your own pity party pal.

I did not know that Star Citizen is released? Or do you mean the Pre-pre-pre-pre alpha they are running right now? Only missing physics, flight system that works, ship systems, random missions, half the ships sold, Star Marine, agricultural systems... list is long.

Abefroman · May 6, 2016

Faith_sl said:
I did not know that Star Citizen is released? Or do you mean the Pre-pre-pre-pre alpha they are running right now? Only missing physics, flight system that works, ship systems, random missions, half the ships sold, Star Marine, agricultural systems... list is long.

What the fuck does any of this have to do with what he said?

Blackwulf · May 20, 2016

Well, how about a bit of news in here? 2.4 has dropped on the PTU, so we have some new stuff to talk about, look at.

Patch Notes:

Star Citizen Patch v2.4.0
Alpha Patch 2.4.0 has been released to the PTU, and is now available for players to test! This patch provides access to our new Shopping experience, full Hangar interactivity from within the game client via new options and the Port Modification App. Many changes to Crusader and Port Olisar including the implementation of new missions, Alpha Currency and Defender reputation. Tying all these new features together and making them truly possible is our first iteration of server-side Persistence ? our first persistent server databases! With this we can begin storing information about in-game characters, items, currency and reputation so they can be recalled between game play sessions. We also have our first pass on control unification between flight and fps controls which promises a greater experience to players, new flyable Starfarer and Starfarer Gemini, the hangar-ready Reliant and numerous fixes across the game. During this initial testing phase, PTU access will be restricted to a small group of players that we will expand on over time as required.
Your launcher should show ?2.4.0-352849? as the client version. It is strongly recommended that players delete their USER folder for the Test client after patching, particularly if you start encountering any odd character graphical issues or crash on loading. The USER folder can be found (in default installations) at C:\Program Files\Cloud Imperium Games\StarCitizen\Test.
Please take full advantage of our PTU Issue Council area of the Community site (Roberts Space Industries) to report any bugs you encounter, as well as contribute to other players submissions.
Important Callouts:
Arena Commander has been disabled for this portion of testing.
The keyboard, mouse and gamepad default keybindings have received a massive update to better unify controls between different peripherals and also between flight and FPS modes.
The major highlights are listed in the UI section below. More detailed information will be coming in the near future, and in the interim, we strongly recommend that players review the keybindings in-game.
We strongly encourage players to use the default keybindings during the PTU phase, so as to provide us with as much constructive feedback as possible regarding the changes.
The Port Modification tool does not currently work in Crusader.
However, modifying your ship in your hangar will allow the loadout to persist into other game modes.
Additionally, the Port Modification tool has only limited access to ship parts at the moment, so modifying ship loadouts should not be a focus of testing in this initial push.
Some of the Port Modification nodes in the Hangar are causing ships and flair items used in the node to disappear. This is a bug, and your ships and flair items are NOT permanently lost, only invisible.
There is a high chance when loading into the Hangar that you will load into empty space.
Reloading the Hangar will generally fix this.
aUEC is sometimes resetting to a seemingly-random amount.
There is missing geometry at far distances in the SelfLand hangar.
FPS weapons are not dealing damage outside of interior physics grid ships.
Crusader
Port Olisar has been renovated. While some areas are still under construction, completed sections include an improved atrium and the opening of several new shops, including Casaba Shopping Outlet, Garrity Defence and Live Wire Weapons.
Crusader Industries has made lockers available in both the EZ Hab rooms and near the Port Olisar airlocks, to allow pilots to change their clothing during long stops.
If a player wishes to change their default civilian clothing, they will need to go to the shops in Port Olisar or ArcCorp and ?Equip? items they have purchased.
This is a very temporary implementation until we have a better equipment access system implemented.
Characters now spawn into Port Olisar in their civilian clothing by default.
Characters who exit Port Olisar in civilian clothing rather than a spacesuit will die.
Respawning in Crusader now costs AUEC.
The charges are only for deaths by ?natural? causes (ship blown up, shot by FPS weapon, spaced in the airlock, ect).
Characters are not charged for respawning if a user becomes stuck and has to use the respawn command.
If a player does not have enough AUEC, they will still be able to respawn.
New landing pads have been added to all of the Port Olisar struts to allow them to hold larger ships.
The asteroid fields around Crusader have proven to be incredibly dangerous to shipping traffic after the veritable flood of pirates into the area.
As a result, enterprising salvage-hungry pilots may find many more wrecks and valuables in need of recovery in the Yela asteroid fields then previously.
Likewise those who are enlisted by Tessa Bannister out at the local ICC Probe Station to investigate the more remote asteroid pockets may also find the odd keepsake of the poor lost souls who perished.
ArcCorp, Area 18
After months of construction, the Casaba Shopping Outlet has opened up on ArcCorp!
Interested pilots can now purchase the latest fashions from around the frontier at affordable prices.
Cubby Blast has also fixed the main sales computer, and is ready to sell eager pilots weapons and armor sets.
Hangar
Players can now select which of their available Hangars they wish to use from the Main Menu of the game!
Inside of the ?Options? menu, in the Game Options section, there is a drop-down menu that will allow players to select which Hangar they would like to use.
This selection will persist between sessions.
Players who change their default Hangar while still inside the Hangar will need to exit and re-enter the hangar to see it update in the game-client.
The expansion bays for each Hangar are temporarily out of service.
This is temporary while we rework certain aspects of the expansion bays to function alongside the Port Modification App.
The VFG industrial central hangar is being expanded to allow owners of large ships to spawn craft in while the expansion bays are worked on.
Likewise the Revel & York central hangar bay is now Extra-Large to allow owners of the Starfarer to spawn it in while the expansion bays are worked on.
Hangar selections made via the RSI website will no longer work or be registered by the game client.
The character load out selector has been removed from the Hangar.
Characters now all load in with the same RSI space suit by default.
New civilian clothing and armor can be obtained from ArcCorp and Port Olisar.
Clothing can be equipped from the lockers on Port Olisar, or by interacting with previously-purchased items in ArcCorp.
The Holotable has been removed from the Hangar? for now.
Players will be able to modify their ships via the Port Modification App going forward.
Game Systems:
Bounty and Reputation System
Crusader Industries has identified a potential weakness in their criminal monitoring network at the understaffed Security Post Kareah.
As a result, Crusader Industries has constructed a much improved security station, armory and are looking to contract reliable pilots in the area as security guards to help protect it.
?Defenders? who repair enough Comm Array or ICC Probe missions will get offered a contract from Crusader Industries to protect Security Post Kareah from nefarious parties.
Newly recruited security guards will receive a weapon from Crusader Industries armory, and will need to defend the station for 10 minutes without dying or allowing any criminals to breach the main security terminal.
Security guards are authorized and encouraged to eliminate any trespassers that enter the station, with a 100 AUEC bonus instantly awarded per trespasser that is dispatched.
Outlaws in Crusader will now receive a mission from mysterious allies to kill the new security guard at Security Post Kareah.
Outlaws and Defenders in Crusader will receive missions to hunt one another in Crusader, with varying rewards.
Defenders will lose their mission to hunt Outlaws if they are killed by an Outlaw.
Outlaws who have a bounty on them can no longer be tracked via mobiGlas if they are outside monitored space.
Both ?Defender? and ?Outlaw? missions award AUEC.
Crusader Industries has tightened their monitoring on deactivating Comm Arrays.
Deactivating a Comm Arrays can now take players all the way to Wanted Level 5.
The timer for Outlaw Wanted Levels only counts down while the account is online on Crusader.
Outlaws no longer receive a special loadout when they respawn.
Instead Outlaws names will be in red on Augmented Reality when you approach them on foot, and they will appear as hostiles when targeted in space.
Outlaws at Wanted Level 5 will no longer get kicked from the server when they are killed.
Outlaw Wanted level will instead persist between sessions, until either enough active play time passes between criminal actions to return to a 0 Wanted level, or until the Outlaw takes actions to erase his wanted level via the Kareah security terminal.
Each Outlaw Wanted level now persists for a number of hours (not minutes) equal to the rank of Wanted.
Wanted level 1 persists for 1 hour, Wanted Level 2 persists for 2 hours, ect.
Wanted Level 5 would persist for 5 hours. Going all the way from Wanted Level 5 to Wanted 0 without taking actions to decrease the Wanted level would take a total of 15 hours.
The ?Defender? reputation of a character on Crusader will persist between sessions.
The ?Defender? reputation of a player in Crusader is not currently displayed on the HUD.
A players ?Defender? reputation is permanent assuming no criminal actions are taken. Performing any criminal action will instantly erase any good reputation earned, and place them at Wanted Level 1.
Alpha Currency (aUEC)
We have added a new currency type that can be earned in-game specifically for testing purposes ? Alpha UEC.
aUEC is currently awarded from performing both Outlaw and ?Defender? missions in Crusader, and can also be earned by salvaging rare valuables in the asteroid fields around crusader.
The Covalex PI Mission rewards more or less aUEC depending on the ending you receive.
aUEC can be used to purchase items in both Port Olisar, Crusader and Area 18, ArcCorp.
Every account will start with 2750 aUEC.
aUEC can be tracked in-game via mobiGlas and will be periodically wiped as needed throughout the Star Citizen Alpha.
Repair, Restock, Refuel
Repairs, Restock, and Refuel in Crusader now cost aEUC.
When a ship lands on a Cry-Astro pad, the mobiGlas of the pilot will open automatically to the Cry-Astro app and show the character which service they need and how much each one costs.
The pilot can then select which ones they wish to purchase and then ?Confirm? the service purchase.
Shopping Experience
We have introduced the first iteration of the Shopping Experience to both Port Olisar and Area 18!
Shopping is accessible through Augmented Reality.
Mousing over any item you are interested in while in AR will give you the name, description and price of an item.
It will also present you with two options ? ?Try on? or ?Buy Now?, which users can toggle between via the mouse wheel or dpad down on Gamepad.
Either option can then be selected via the standard ?Interact? keybinding, which by default is via ?F? on the keyboard or ?Y? on the gamepad.
?Try On? will bring up a dressing room preview of how the item looks.
?Buy Now? will take you to the checkout screen, where you can confirm your purchase before it is delivered to your locker on Port Olisar.
There is also a option called ?Deliver To? that is greyed-out, pending implementation in a future iteration.
If you already own an item, the UI will show ?Equip? instead of ?Buy Now?.
Cubby Blast (ArcCorp), Live Wire Weapons and Garrity Defense (Port Olisar) offers all of our currently available weapons and 6 armor sets.
Casaba Outlets offer civilian clothing in the form of hats, footwear, pants, shirts and jackets.
The main Casaba Outlet store on ArcCorp has a much larger selection of attire.
Items purchased via the shopping experience will also persist from session to session.
Please note that throughout the alpha and beta of Star Citizen we will periodically wipe items back to a clean state status for further testing.
Persistence
One of the biggest features we?ve implemented in Alpha 2.4.0 is our first iteration of true server-side Persistence. Persistent databases are what allow us to store information on items, ships, questions, locations, and actions that a player has taken, such that they can return to exactly where they left off session-to-session. This is a huge step forward into the ?Persistent? part of making the ?Persistent Universe? the vast universe we all look forward to.
During this first iteration, the following items will now ?Persist? on the database and be saved from session to session.
aUEC
Item Purchases
Hangar Configurations
Ship Loadouts
Character Loadouts
Crusader Reputation (Criminal and Defender)
Ship Ammo and Missiles (Crusader only)
Persistence from build to build will not be available at this point in testing. We are wiping the database with each deployment. Thus when a new build is published to PTU, your character?s persistent related information will be wiped clean.
Port Modification App
What is this? What does it do? What doesn?t it do! This handy application allows pilots from all over the ?verse to directly modify the loadouts of their ships ? just by looking at their ships and activating the appropriate nodes!
This fun-filled new option is housed in mobiGlas and currently can be accessed by pressing the ?home? key on your keyboard.
Once the Port Modification App is activated, your AR vision will show you interaction points in both the Hangar and Ship where you can place flair items, ships and modify components.
The Port Modification app works in both the Hangar and Crusader. Changes made in the Hangar will carry over to your Arena Commander Simulation sessions, and changes made in Crusader will carry on in the ?verse from session to session.
It also allows you to select what ships you wish to have in your Hangar without use of the RSI website, and allows you to select where and which Flair items you want to place!
Social Module
mobiGlas now shows both AUEC (Alpha UEC) and UEC in the top right corner of the main mobiGlas page.
Augmented Reality is now on by default.
It can still be toggled on and off with the F2 key.
Ships:
The MISC Reliant (Base) has been added as a Hangar-Ready ship.
The Starfarer (Base) and the Starfarer Gemini are now flight-ready, and available for pilots to summon in Crusader.
Ship health has received a balance pass across the board.
Ships that will have seen an increase in health include the Mustang (All), 300i and Freelancer.
Ships that will have seen a decrease in health include the Aurora (All), 325a, 315p, Hornet (all), Gladiator, Vanguard and Constellation Andromeda.
Ship armor and shields are currently going through a review for rebalancing, and may experience adjustments during the 2.4.0 PTU process.
First Person:
A whole slew of animation changes have been made to support the new shopping experience.
We have added a slew of new items from armor to civilian clothing that players can obtain and use through the Shopping experience.
Our initial selection of civilian clothing includes five styles of jackets, three different shirt styles (in a wide variety of colors), six styles of pants (also in a wide range of colors), shoes and hats!
We also have familiar Marine and Outlaw armors, flightsuits and the full assortment of FPS weapons.
User Interface:
The keyboard, mouse and gamepad default keybindings have received a massive update to better unify controls between different peripherals and also between flight and FPS modes. Major changes include:
mobiGlas is now on F1 on the Keyboard.
Spacebrake is now on ?Left ALt+ X? (Keyboard) and ?LeftShoulder+B? (Gamepad).
Exit ship/Exit seats is now on ?Left Alt+F? (Keyboard) and ?LeftShoulder+Y? (Gamepad).
Cycle Countermeasure is now ?G? (Keyboard), and ?Dpad Down? (Gamepad).
Launch Countermeasures is now Hold-?G? (Keyboard), Mouse Button 4, ?RightShoulder? (Gamepad).
Throttle Min/Thottle Max is now ?Backspace? (Keyboard) as a toggle.
Self-Destruct and Force Respawn are now by holding down ?Right Alt + Backspace? (Keyboard), and ?LeftShoulder + RightShoulder + B? (GamePad).
The keybinding changes are very extensive. More detailed information will be coming in the near future, and in the interim, we strongly recommend that players review the keybindings in-game.
We strongly encourage players to use the default keybindings during the PTU phase, so as to provide us with as much constructive feedback as possible regarding the changes.
Updates and Fixes
Star Systems:
ArcCorp, Area 18
Fixed an issue where a lighting effect on the elevator doors would pop as the doors opened and closed.
Fixed an issue where a bright light was flickering on and off in the center of AstroArmada.
Toned down some of the lighting in the Customs area of ArcCorp.
Fixed an issue where the visual effects for the Sphere outside of TDD Jobwell were missing.
Fixed an issue where the Cubby Blast sign had some texture clipping and conflicts.
Crusader
Fixed an issue where the Yela asteroid were missing a number of graphical detail levels.
Fixed an issue where Quantum Traveling to an object would sometimes cause the player?s ship to be moved about 3000m in a random direction.
Fixed an issue wherein ramming another players ship and destroying your own ship in the process, would give the other user a Criminal Wanted level.
Fixed an issue where the Audio for Comms Array activation and deactivation was playing globally across the server.
Hangar
Fixed an issue where the door frames in the VFG Industrial hangar were missing detail levels.
Game Systems:
Arena Commander
Added the ability for characters to suicide in Arena Commander.
Fixed an issue in the Tutorial (Chapter 6), where the eject hint would be for the keyboard even when using the gamepad.
IFCS
Precision mode velocity damping now only applies to strafe.
Strafe is no longer affected by the space-brake.
Ships:
Fixed an issue where pilots who entered certain landed ships would sometimes see the artificial horizon holo-disc grow huge on their screens.
Fixed an issue where several ships would take a very long time to destroy unless their cockpit took damage.
Individual Ships
300 Series
Fixed an issue where the 300i and 350r landing gear would hover a few inches above the landing pad.
Aurora
Fixed an issue where maneuvering thruster audio on the Aurora LN was repeating excessively at moderate-to-high volume levels.
Avenger
Fixed an issue where the zoom-camera for the Avenger HUD would pull the camera too far toward the left or right when zooming in on screens.
Fixed an issue where the Avenger (all) would drain fuel very quickly when using boost or afterburner.
Fixed an issue where the Avenger Warlock was missing its Visor HUD information.
Cutlass Black
Fixed an issue where the zoom camera for the Cutlass Black HUD would pull the camera too far downward when zooming in on screens.
Fixed an issue where the entrance audio for the Cutlass Black did not attenuate over distance or direction.
Fixed an issue where the ramp suspension had no collision for all Cutlass variants.
Fixed an issue where the turret seat of the Cutlass Black was hovering inside of the cargo bay until it had been interacted with.
Gladiator
Fixed an issue where the left wing landing gear of the Gladiator would sometimes spawn in deployed for Arena Commander matches.
Fixed an issue where the Gladiator exterior lights were not aligned to the body of the ship.
Gladius
Fixed an issue where the zoom-camera for the Gladius HUD would pull the camera too far toward the left or right when zooming in on screens.
Fixed an issue where the Gladius pilot had no strafe animations.
Hornet
Made some minor art and visual effect tweaks to the Hornet series of ships.
Khartu-Al
Fixed an issue where using automated landing on the Khartu-al would sometimes cause the ship to strafe?.forever.
Fixed an issue with the Khartu-Al where flying close to objects would cause the ship to rapidly switch between landing and flight mode.
P-52 Merlin
Fixed an issue where the Merlin maneuvering thrusters were missing graphical detail levels.
Retaliator
Fixed an issue where the zoom camera for the Retaliator HUD would pull the camera too far toward the center when zooming in on screens.
Sabre
Fixed an issue with the Aegis Sabre where the color and damage shaders were visible on the interior of the landing gear doors.
Fixed an issue where the zoom-camera for the Sabre HUD would pull the camera too far toward the left or right when zooming in on screens.
Starfarer
Fixed an issue where character who walked past a ladder in the Starfarer would automatically climb the ladder.
Fixed an issue where there was a flickering white light around the external gangway of the Starfarer.
Fixed an issue where the Captains seat on the Starfarer had no ?Use? prompt.
Fixed an issue where panels in the Starfarer Docking Collar were reversed.
Vanguard Warden
Fixed an issue where the Vanguard Wardens missile racks could be attached to any ship.
Components
Fixed an issue where the Max Ox Neutron Cannon (S1 and S2) were both unaffected by overheating.
First Person:
Fixed an issue where characters would not lift their leg when EVA?ing around the Port Olisar rings.
Fixed an issue where the helm flashlight had a blur effect inside of ships.
Fixed an issue where the wheels and glass on the Greycat Buggy had graphical detail problems that would cause it to pop in and out at close range.
Fixed an issue where the Greycat Buggy was spawning with its wheels partially in the floor of the Hangar and ArcCorp.
Fixed an issue where the FPS Radar was oriented to the helmet and would rotate with it, instead of moving with the player.
FPS Weapons
Fixed an issue where the small arms fire from FPS weapons would not manifest inside of a ships physics grid.
Gun battles inside of ships are now fully possible!
Fixed an issue where the Devestator-12 Energy Shotgun damage abruptly dropped off at a certain distance.
Fixed an issue where swapping an Arrowhead Sniper rifle for another weapon would leave the Arrowhead rifle floating in midair.
Fixed an issue where players could not pick up dropped Arrowhead Sniper rifle.
Fixed an issue where headshots taken with the Arrowhead Sniper rifle wouldn?t register past a certain distance.
Fixed some visual effect issues with the Arrowhead Sniper Rifle.
Fixed an issue where characters would drop their gun both when unholstering and when switching weapons.
User Interface:
Fixed an issue where the HUD Interaction cursor was not properly aligned with multi-function displays, making it difficult to cycle screens.
Fixed an issue where users could not rotate a turret with a HOTAS or Joystick peripheral.
Fixed an issue where certain keybindings were saved to the incorrect peripheral and were not saved on restart.
Fixed an issue where the ?double tap? binding for player keybindings was not saving correctly.
Fixed an issue where the HUD Icons on the helmet holoradar were affected by motion blur, causing them to stretch when turning or looking around.
Technical:
Fixed a number of client crashes.
Fixed a number of server crashes.
Optimizations
Made some graphical performance tweaks to the Constellation Andromeda.
Made some continued performance improvements to the game servers.
Fixed some significant lag tied to the chaff visual effects.

I know that's a crappy formatting. Go to reddit if you want to see a prettier version:Reddit Patch Notes

A guy filmed a Starfarer (first really big ship) in combat with some smaller ships. Kinda cool:

This guy is playing with one of the new persistence features - you can set up your hangar how you want and the server saves it (it's no longer locally stored in an XML file)

Here's a guy showing off how the augmented reality and shopping features work:

Another guy looking around the new shops planetside:

uniqueuser · May 20, 2016

Shopping Commander 2016. Now all that remains to secure the teenage girl demographic is virtual social media so they can post selfies onSpacebook.

Variise · May 20, 2016

From my understanding the port modification tool is either temp for ships or just an alternate way to mod ships until they re-do the holotable. It does look a bit tedious if you are going for a quick turnaround on equipment but it's fine if it's just another way of handling it since it seems perfect for decorating.

Seems like small potatoes overall but it's yet more features that can be tested/broken/changed. It's core functionality and it needs player interaction to see if it's any good.

On another note combat looks about right with the heavy Starfarer.

As for the girl demographic you won't see females in SC until the base Human male has been fully implemented and working with everything. They continue to work on that stuff regardless so once the guy is done the girl should be implemented rapidly and you should feel much more hate as you see everything here flooded with pics of nothing but chicks in underwear and various states of undress. They are still working out how to best get clothing/armor to work between male and females btw so we might not see anything until the end of the year.

imijj_sl · May 23, 2016

This game is never coming out as promised. They're a fucking MMO that is worried about the bandwidth costs associated with QA-testing.

Variise · May 23, 2016

And do tell why would they waste money on testers when a smaller group has found the issues they need to fix? When it's ready it will get pushed. They are already blamed for wasting backer money on too much testing and iteration to improve the game so I'm not following the logic here. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

This is a major reason why you won't ever see another gaming company be this open with their game development.

Jackdaddio_sl · May 23, 2016

Variise_sl said:
This is a major reason why you won't ever see another gaming company be this open with their game development.

Well, don't they kinda have to?

I mean... they took folk's donated money, promised a helluva a lot, got accused on financial stuff by Smart publicly (true or not) and they couldn't exactly say "none ya" to everyone after that. They are showing the same amount of openness that Camelot Unchained, Crowfall and just about every other independent product that takes money seems to be showing.

Pretty sure the reason why you see them this open with their game development has nothing to do with criticism, and more about the fact that it's OPM.

Variise · May 23, 2016

Yeah that's fair if you compare them to the little guys. I'm talking about companies with actual AAA titles where they spend 50-100+ million on a game with 1/10th the features that have already been done to death only this time it's more shiny. None of those big companies have been open and they never will be. The publisher is in charge of PR and what they are or aren't allowed to do. Just by nature those big companies are risk averse and their PR/Communications mirrors this. Indi developers are by nature risk takers simply because you need that to get noticed and have your game stand out.

As people tend to forget so easily CIG didn't start out with 100+ million dollars and an established core development team. Hell they have only been at the pace of production a typical AAA developer has for 2 years while the big boys start with a crew like that and run for 3-5 years.

If you listen to any of the weekly developer video from Germany you wish they were more open because what we get right now is a tiny fraction of what they are internally working on and apparently if you can get a tour there they will even show it all to you if you sign an NDA but it's just not for public consumption.

It's funny because the very best most exciting parts of development for me was watching super early development from Foundry 42 and the Austin office via the Beer Hat Cam but someone had to fuck it up and we don't get that anymore. It was one too many forum meltdowns and for me it kind of killed the excitement because I'm most interested in the super early concept/dev stage and not the almost finished product as it's being implemented. That's something we only started to see again with the recent Fast Forward parts at the end of their weekly videos but I want to see even earlier concept/dev stuff. If I could afford to go to Germany and visit them I would just to see what they are hiding.

Jackdaddio_sl · May 23, 2016

Variise_sl said:
Yeah that's fair if you compare them to the little guys. I'm talking about companies with actual AAA titles where they spend 50-100+ million on a game with 1/10th the features that have already been done to death only this time it's more shiny. None of those big companies have been open and they never will be.

I get what you're saying but I think you're missing the point.

The reason those large companies don't have the same unprecedented level of openness is because they are using their own money, point blank. It's their resources and their money so they will release what looks good and hold back what looks bad. This is especially true if they have a board of shareholders to report to. They try something in testing, it fails and then they are told "Fuck it. put the typical thing in there." Since they are recouping their own investments or the publishers, they'll wait until the last minute to show people what the game is. That's how they get their 50-100+ million back (or plan to).

Star Citizen has to report to the individual people who invested in the game or else things look shady. They don't have to recoup millions back since they didn't borrow it or have a publisher expecting a hefty return. All the suck.. err.. Kickstarter people expect is a working copy of the game, not $$$ profits. Players could give a shit whether the game sells 1000 copies or 1 billion as long as they get their ONE working copy and whatever in-game swag was promised. Since they all donated that money and no one likes "I told you so", many of them will say they are perfectly fine with X feature not working or Y feature toned down as the game is made.

I was comparing them to small firms only for the common denominator: SC and the 'little guys' are using Other People's Money, not theirs. Theyhaveto be transparent, explain why promised feature isn't in there, why promised Ship #352 isn't in the game or being changed drastically, especially if they plan on collecting MORE money along the way as the game gets built through the already functioning cash shops.

You know how SC had hit its funding goal and then keeps selling ships and crap long afterwards? They wouldn't have be able to do this if they weren't open and showing people everything along the way.

Variise · May 23, 2016

Ok couple of points.

First of all if AAA titles were consistently been good you would have a point. However it's been the exact opposite. At some point they will alienate enough people to crash the whole thing. It wouldn't be the first time. Hollywood is doing a very similar thing right now so all the good writers went to TV/streaming services and you get utter shit plots for movies I could consistently write a better story for. You can only rehash the same thing so many times until people catch on and move on to something else.

Since this is a very interactive multiplayer game not just single player I think a majority of people do actually care if people buy this game since if they don't that means a galaxy filled only with NPCs and no matter how good the AI is it can't compare to having real Human interaction.

Sure people don't like being wrong that's true but you get people who are upset with games all the time. Pre-Order and Early Access is a good example where people are promised A, get Y and trash the game and demand their money back. This has blown up many times on steam and it's one of the reasons they instituted changes in this area along with a refund feature. Steam is pretty fucking big so I think it's safe to use it as an example which disproves your point.

As for the rest you are absolutely right.

Their funding post game will also be interesting. If they can't implement a customization system at launch their funding plan is fucked since that was one of the primary ways in which they planned to fund the game and right now it doesn't look good. The only thing left then is just selling in-game cash which is fine since that cuts out gold farmers and nobody fucking wants them but look how they will be painted. Totally Pay to Win and it's hard to argue that point. Then again that argument will be made regardless. What can you do.

Itzena_sl · May 27, 2016

Why are you trying to conflate quality of AAA titles with AAA titles being developed with their own money rather than other peoples?

Utnayan · May 28, 2016

Itzena_sl said:
Why are you trying to conflate quality of AAA titles with AAA titles being developed with their own money rather than other peoples?

This. It also isn't that fucking hard to understand. Use donated money, open your ass. Amazing. Use your own money, be as secretive as you want.

Variise · May 28, 2016

But it's not their money. Developers and Publishers are rarely one and the same. The Blizzard and Valves of the world don't make up the entire gaming industry. Developers don't have a say in PR. Ever. They didn't put up the money and so contractually they are in a very weak position to dictate terms and the industry has shown this time and time again.

Quality comes into it from the perspective of the Developer. There are good and bad things about having open communication. A good one is early feedback showing one of your core systems blows chunks and will fall flat on it's face at launch turning your company into a laughing stock. Or you may get incredible feedback on a new feature and this prompts you to expand on it earlier than planned and make it a core feature of the game that makes it stand out from the competition.

The Publisher on the other hand wants to stack the deck and always bet on a winning horse. The game that was so incredibly risky but successful was 3-4 versions ago. Now they are printing money until they run the IP/Developer into the ground. EA loves to do that. This means communication is kept to virtually zero. Not because they have some magical PR and Developer skills. It's because they are afraid whatever they show may turn off pre-orders if something goes wrong or that feature might not make it in and it come out that it was for a Wall Street quarterly report.

imijj_sl · Jun 12, 2016

imijj_sl said:
This game is never coming out as promised.

Star Citizen Terms of Service 2/12/15-6.10.16 changes - Album on Imgur

Better start a chargeback with your bank ASAP. Don't agree to the new TOS. If you're in Europe and Australia they have to give you a refund. America will require a little more internet lawyering.

No need to reply to this if you're a cultist. I don't care to argue with crazy people. Just providing a community service for the sane.

Cheers!

Skanda · Jun 12, 2016

What exactly in that am I suppose to be mad about?

Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

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