Star Trek: Picard

None of it makes sense because they're just making shit up as they go, ignoring anything that happened in the past that gets in the way of their new story. It's fucking lazy and insulting. Episode 2 is so incredibly boring to boot. Beyond the maybe interesting Android rebellion at the start you get like 2 minutes of recap, another couple minutes of credits at the front and end, and some poorly done bedroom scene. (we hate androids but this one is slutty so ima hit it!)

The Romulan care giver knowing about the super secret Romulan police, being a super detective, poor set choices like the Anaheim convention center, old Admiral woman yelling and dropping fbombs at Picard after all he's fucking done over the years, on and on. Makes me miss the old format even more. Telling a Star Trek story over 10 episodes has some benefits I suppose but may lose the primal essence of the show. Star Trek was character driven. You cared about the crew. They devoted episodes to expanding characters that you just can't do in this format.

Shit sucks and the more I think about it the angrier I get.

Arbitrary said:

especially with Garak now leading the Tal Shiar

Click to expand...

wat

Gavinmad said:

wat

Click to expand...

Bah, I mean the Obsidian Order. I forgot the names.

So in the DS9 relaunch books Garak is in charge of the Obsidian Order.

Arbitrary said:

Bah, I mean the Obsidian Order. I forgot the names.

So in the DS9 relaunch books Garak is in charge of the Obsidian Order.

Click to expand...

The Obsidian Order that was entirely wiped out by the Dominion?

Gavinmad said:

The Obsidian Order that was entirely wiped out by the Dominion?

Click to expand...

Yes!

Gotta start a new agency somewhere.

Arbitrary said:

Yes!

Gotta start a new agency somewhere.

Click to expand...

I mean...so they put him in charge of the Cardassian Intelligence Bureau and he renamed it back to the Obsidian Order? Or they dissolved the CIB in the aftermath of leaving the Dominion?

Gavinmad said:

After being tricked by Sisko and Starfleet command.

Click to expand...

Cybsled said:

Click to expand...

Ok in all fairness, after being tricked by Garak playing 5D chess

"All my contacts on Cardassia are dead, I guess we'll have to manufacture evidence that I know will never actually work as part of a way easier plan."

"Right, so when you're passing off this evidence tell him a bunch of good men gave their lives to get this data out of Cardassia. It'll add gravitas."

Garak, you didn't even bother contacting your assets in Cardassia did you.

In The Pale Moonlight is simultaneously one of the worst and one of the best Star Trek episodes ever made.

Gavinmad said:

In The Pale Moonlight is simultaneously one of the worst and one of the best Star Trek episodes ever made.

Click to expand...

I'll always love DS9 but as time continues to move forward I'm increasingly sympathetic to the idea that it was a bad for the franchise. The dark undertones throughout the series have continued to seep in to the property as a whole. Section 31 pops up in Discovery and is getting its own show. Coupled with the action schlock what we're getting is divorced from the TOS/TNG vision of the future.

Sisko said a brief line about Starfleet giving their blessing for the plan to fake the evidence but it's clear from his log narration that he never told Dax, let alone Starfleet, about Garak destroying the shuttle. Sisko wasn't around to tell anyone after the war and Garak is the head of the new Obsidian Order.

3301 said:

How did this show get renewed for a second season even before the first episode aired?

The writing is top notch, that's why?

"Put in another reference to Earl Gray."

'It's only the second episo....'

"DO IT."

Click to expand...

Look, the guy that wrote the Mummy reboot absolutely should be given free reign on Star Trek.

DS9 was at least candid, though, about the realism of the Trek concept. Humans are still humans, no matter how enlightened or technologically advanced. No utopia is ever built without someone getting their hands dirty.

You can overcome that to a degree, and always strive to be better, but to pretend that shit would just magically vanish forever is a little too naive.

Don't forget that Pale Moon Light is consistently rated one of the fan favorites of DS9.

Deathwing said:

DS9 was like playing with fire and the idiots that came after clearly don't know how to do it. Like Gavinrad was alluding to, DS9 didn't know how to do it sometimes either. Episodes like "In the Pale Moonlight", "The Visitor", and "The Siege of AR-558" can have their places in Star Trek but only if they're handled well and are counterbalanced with light hearted episodes. Going to the holodeck to play baseball can fuck off though.

Look at what the head writer(Ron Moore) later did with BS:G to see what happens you don't contrast the dark grittiness with...well, anything. That is not to say BS:G didn't have other serious issues.

Click to expand...

Roddenburry died and they tried to stay faithful to his vision for a while, then slowly moved way from it because they didn't have that asshole telling them to try harder.

I love DS9, but honestly most of my love comes from Dukat and the Ferengi. The Federation is like the straight man and these guys provided the contrast. This is something I just don't see as possible with this new format.

Deathwing said:

DS9 was like playing with fire and the idiots that came after clearly don't know how to do it. Like Gavinrad was alluding to, DS9 didn't know how to do it sometimes either. Episodes like "In the Pale Moonlight", "The Visitor", and "The Siege of AR-558" can have their places in Star Trek but only if they're handled well and are counterbalanced with light hearted episodes. Going to the holodeck to play baseball can fuck off though.

Look at what the head writer(Ron Moore) later did with BS:G to see what happens you don't contrast the dark grittiness with...well, anything. That is not to say BS:G didn't have other serious issues.

Click to expand...

I think the reason why it worked in DS9 is because you had a crisis that had people facing genocide, and still despite that pressure it was clear the Federation's broader culture and even political elite were totally against these things. They had to be done in the shadows. They were not celebrated, or accepted..they weren't even really known or tolerated by the whole. Instead they were tolerated by a few individuals who sold a piece of their soul so the whole could continue to be innocent. And those who did that, ended up really struggling with it; Sisko was not at all proud of what he did, he hated it, and he hid it--he was ashamed. That context is important.

One thing I'm worried about in the new Picard is you're going to see the "bad parts of the federation" gleefully pushing their points of view in the dumbest manner and the writing is going to attempt to make them look ignorant/wrong with zero logic behind their beliefs/motivation (During an argument scene they will be stunned by the logic of the idealists!), instead of people who are forced to be pragmatic, with extremely good reasoning, who have taken on that burden of pragmatism to allow for others to keep their idealism. And frankly that's part of the reason why I hate the new ideological writing in Hollywood is because the exploration is so one sided, the idealists are so right that its literally stunning and brave; meanwhile, in the past, there was an actual struggle between the sides, the other side often had compelling reasoning--sometimes, as within the pale moonlight, to the point that they forced the idealists to bend to dirty pragmatism. (That and what was progressive was very different)

And that kind of struggle makes great TV...What does not make great TV is having one side preach to the other side who look like fools acting purely out of anger or fear with no proper reasoning, all so the "good" side of the argument can be elevated to near scripture.

I struggled with the latest episode.

Felt way too heavy on the info download and very thin on any real adventure. I'd maybe forgive this for a mid-season episode but not really the second of the series.