Star Trek: Picard

Deathwing said:

whataboutism

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lurkingdirk said:

Sorry everyone. I didn't hate Picard. There's a lot of shitty TV out there, Picard wasn't as shitty as a lot of it. Was it best Trek? No. But I'd watch it again before a lot of shit that's on tv.

I not only didn't just not hate it, there was quite a lot of it I enjoyed.

Come at me.

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Well, whataboutism is a subset of the fallacy Red Herring. You’re drawing attention to <a lot of shitty TV out there> which <Picard wasn’t as shitty as a lot it it>. That’s a false analogy and irrelevant to best Trek (TNG?) or even Trek. Trek ought to be compared to Trek, here on a nerd board. Or if need be Trek’esque shows like the orville or some other relevant space soap opera. At the very least something other than <a lot of shitty TV>. Comon, dirk, apply one or more of your degrees.

Pretty much the only good scene in Picard

Honestly that's the only part of Picard that was good tbh. Her story made me sad for her character. She went through a lot with the rescued borg children.

Izo said:

Well, whataboutism is a subset of the fallacy Red Herring. You’re drawing attention to <a lot of shitty TV out there> which <Picard wasn’t as shitty as a lot it it>. That’s a false analogy and irrelevant to best Trek (TNG?) or even Trek. Trek ought to be compared to Trek, here on a nerd board. Or if need be Trek’esque shows like the orville or some other relevant space soap opera. At the very least something other than <a lot of shitty TV>. Comon, dirk, apply one or more of your degrees.

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I don't think you necessarily have to compare them, except in cases where the same character is used etc. Each can stand on its own and be judged. And, apparently, found wanting. The problem with Picard isn't that it suffers compared to TNG in quality, it's just not even the same thing.

The expansion of the Star Trek universe isn't slowing down any time soon. Since Alex Kurtzman and his colleagues at Secret Hideout took the helm of the Star Trek television universe, six new Star Trek series have emerged. It began with Star Trek: Discovery, continued with Star Trek: Picard, and progressed further with Star Trek: Lower Decks. Still to come are Star Trek: Discovery spinoffs Section 31 and Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, as well as kids animated series Star Trek: Prodigy with Kate Mulgrew returning as Capt. Janeway from Star Trek: Voyager. But that's just the start. Kurtzman tells The Hollywood Reporter's TV's Top 5 podcast that there are loose plans in place to continue expanding the franchise through 2027.
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That future includes several more seasons of Star Trek: Discovery beyond its third, which premieres on CBS All Access on Thursday. "I'm going to say, in all honesty, there are years and years left on Discovery," Kurtzman said. "I think that because Star Trek, in general, has had a long history of going something like seven seasons minimum, and we just jumped into the future… it's not that it's a brand new show, but it's a whole new set of variables with a whole new set of ideas and stories, and I don't think we limit ourselves to thinking, 'Oh, we're capped at this place.' I'll tell you when the show starts to feel stale to us, we will be rallying to stop it — but for now, it doesn't feel like we are running into a shortage of stories."

Izo said:

Well, whataboutism is a subset of the fallacy Red Herring. You’re drawing attention to <a lot of shitty TV out there> which <Picard wasn’t as shitty as a lot it it>. That’s a false analogy and irrelevant to best Trek (TNG?) or even Trek. Trek ought to be compared to Trek, here on a nerd board. Or if need be Trek’esque shows like the orville or some other relevant space soap opera. At the very least something other than <a lot of shitty TV>. Comon, dirk, apply one or more of your degrees.

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See, and I think you're reaching here. I'm saying that Star Trek, in general, is better than most television that is produced. I enjoy Star Trek more than most television that is produce. That's not a Red Herring. That's me making a comparison to similar things - they're both on tv, I like one more than the other.

Calm down, man.

Deathwing said:

I like my wife's lasagna more than a literal turd sandwich.

My wife's lasagna is good but she puts a large amount of spinach in it. Cooked spinach has a gross texture and it really hampers the overall dish.



See the difference? You said the first one.


Also, thanks for responding You're still not substantiating your opinion, btw.

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No. That's not fair. I like X tv show more than most other tv shows. They're all tv shows, all available to be viewed, I choose to watch X because I think it's the best offering.

A literal turd sandwich is not in the same category as lasagna. A tv show compared to another tv show is the same category.

Nidhogg said:

Honestly that's the only part of Picard that was good tbh. Her story made me sad for her character. She went through a lot with the rescued borg children.

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It's not bad in terms of storytelling or anything but I like my Star Trek to be optimistic. Now if you go back and watch Voyager you know that Seven is going to end up a world-weary cynic in her pursuit of her own humanity. Icheb is going to get vivisected for parts. Troy and Riker have a child that dies of a bizarre yet treatable illness. The Federation decides, for some reason, to create a series of slave androids. It goes terribly. The evacuation of Romulus goes terribly.

I really like Batman Beyond. It has a nickname - Bad End Beyond. As we move to the future things turned out pretty horrible for just about everyone we saw in Batman the Animated Series and to a lesser extend Superman and Justice League. It's a lot even in a comic/cartoon setting. I don't want that for Star Trek.

All shows are subjective. There are people who love CBS sitcoms and to them, that is quality and they'd watch my weirdo shit and be appalled that someone even made this. There is no objective measure of quality, by definition.

Deathwing said:

You're missing the point. A turd sandwich was chosen to accentuate the example. Perhaps that was a bad choice. A garbage plate instead then?

You're making a subjective comparison. Whether the objects being compared are in the same "category" or not is irrelevant. Saying you liked something doesn't make it good. Saying something is better than other things doesn't make it good.

That's why I said "whataboutism". Substantiate your claim. What was objectively done well in this show?

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I see what you're saying, however I think subjective evaluations are fair game for television shows. Some people like something for reasons beyond me, and I can't understand that. Me thinking it's crap doesn't make it crap. Different shows appeal differently do different people.

However, I believe the acting in Picard is generally better than the acting in most shows. I also believe they developed plot in more detailed and sophisticated ways that is done in any sitcom or even police show. One of the things I really like is the long-term plot lines - things that last through the whole season. That's absent in most every other type of show on tv right now. I like the long story. I also think the production quality is pretty damned high. These are the things I find to be better than most everything else on TV.

Now there are other shows I enjoy where these things become irrelevant. I don't know if you've ever watched "Call the Midwife." There are virtually no long term plot lines from episode to episode outside of marriages and the like. It's totally episodic in nature, but it has other things I like, such as a positive portrayal of Christians. There's also really good character development.

The shows are utterly unalike, but I enjoy them both.

Deathwing said:

Does this top IOOTI?

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You tell me, what objective standards should we use to judge art?

chaos said:

You tell me, what objective standards should we use to judge art?

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If I like it, it's good. If not, it's crap.

My feels!

chaos said:

There are people who love CBS sitcoms

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If on "Joey" we learned that Monica and Chandler's children all died and got to watch Ross's monkey get vivisected it would not be unreasonable for the fanbase to fracture even if the show found an audience.