Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
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jayrebb
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Strange World's isn't really attracting investors despite plea to old fans of classic Trek.
Just to be clear, this series was designed to generate investors in the old Trek IP-- the pre-discovery era tone. And it hasn't done that yet.
Kurtzman is running out of tricks.
Lithose
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When you hire writers more because you agree with their social views than their writing ability--you get shit products. And I'm not saying "SJW writers are bad"--its pretty clear Rick and Morty hired some big SJWs and their latest season was great. But its also clear Harmon is open with bringing in shitlords and edgier writers who counter balance ideas.
When you're so ideologically constrained that you have an echo chamber, I believe it genuinely reduces artistic ability because the product can't really explore ideas in a stimulating way. And from everything I've read behind the scenes of this dumpster fire, they've been extremely aggressive with policing the "right kind of views".
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That's whataboutism. Discovery and Picard are objectively shit by themselves, don't need to compare them to other shows.
spronk
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Star Trek: Risa its all about hookers and blackjack, Commander Riker makes a guest appearance every episode
I'm on season 4 of DS9 rewatch, first time in over a decade. Its so fantastic, just finished the episode where Bashir and Garak play Bond agents in the holodeck. One of my favorites so far. I was surprised by how decent season 1 was, while there were one or two stinkers for the most part I've enjoyed almost every single episode so far. The extremely slow buildup of the dominion - literally a small mention one episode, then wait 10-15 episodes for the next small mention - is so amazing. Compare that to Picard or Discovery, where there is constant danger and galaxy wide annihilation every freaking 10 minutes.
The biggest problem new shows have is a utter lack of trust in the audience to follow you for more than 15 minutes, ever since Lost there is some weird rule where you must do something INSANE every 10 minutes or viewers will go back to instagram or something.
Fuck new shows, I'll watch stuff like Westworld or whatever for the "visuals" because they are extremely technically competent but I'll enjoy my Babylon 5, TNG/DS9/etc, Farscape, Rome, Deadwood, etc over shit like Picard. It still kills me that show ended with an even shittier version of Mass Effect.
damn its been a minute since I watched Spartacus thats a great thing to hit up next
I'm on season 4 of DS9 rewatch, first time in over a decade. Its so fantastic, just finished the episode where Bashir and Garak play Bond agents in the holodeck. One of my favorites so far. I was surprised by how decent season 1 was, while there were one or two stinkers for the most part I've enjoyed almost every single episode so far. The extremely slow buildup of the dominion - literally a small mention one episode, then wait 10-15 episodes for the next small mention - is so amazing. Compare that to Picard or Discovery, where there is constant danger and galaxy wide annihilation every freaking 10 minutes.
The biggest problem new shows have is a utter lack of trust in the audience to follow you for more than 15 minutes, ever since Lost there is some weird rule where you must do something INSANE every 10 minutes or viewers will go back to instagram or something.
Fuck new shows, I'll watch stuff like Westworld or whatever for the "visuals" because they are extremely technically competent but I'll enjoy my Babylon 5, TNG/DS9/etc, Farscape, Rome, Deadwood, etc over shit like Picard. It still kills me that show ended with an even shittier version of Mass Effect.
damn its been a minute since I watched Spartacus thats a great thing to hit up next
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chaos
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Yeah, i don't buy it. Virtually every piece of film or television that we love is written or created by someone you would probably label as an SJW. Clearly, good art has been made over the past 100 years in spite of liberal politics existing. This series, in particular, is bad not because they showcase trans rights or whatever the fuck, they just don't understand what is actually appealing about a utopian future space exploration show, and they constantly retread area we've already been on instead of boldly exploring new plotlines. It seems more like corporate cowardice and mismanagement than politics.
Everyone keeps telling me I need to watch The Orville, might have to give that a try.
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Lithose
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Clearly you didn't read my post.
And I'm not saying "SJW writers are bad"--its pretty clear Rick and Morty hired some big SJWs and their latest season was great.
The problem isn't just extremely Liberal writers. The problem is when their politics can't be questioned because of a hostile atmosphere toward anything else. SJW writers aren't bad inherently, things only become bad when the people in charge become so controlling that other ideas aren't given room to breathe. Which means ideas can't be challenged in interesting ways.
Above is relevant. I mean, look at the original TNG--the Ferengi were supposed to mock Capitalism, men and women wore skirts in the first season. There were a lot of dumb ideas that were clearly born of super Liberal politics. But when they got criticism, they changed these things--because politics wasn't as important as letting the show take its own direction. By the end of DS9, by god the evil Capitalist Ferengi were actually making some good points and making the wonderful socialists of the federation think--that kind of growth only happens if your writing room is open to having their politics challenged.
Tolerance for other ideas is different from your own beliefs. I think the beliefs of most writers have remained the same, the issue is the tolerance for any push back against those beliefs has dropped. And a lot of art is suffering due to it.
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chaos
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Yeah I read your post. You're describing just about every writers room in existence outside of bullshit like the Left Behind movies or whatever. And even if you're 100% spot on and the mind virus or whatever dumb shit you scamps are calling it now has just infected everyone at CBS so much that they can't be bothered with fiscal responsibility anymore, it isn't as if the issues with Star Trek just started. Picard, Discovery, this shit, the reboots, most of the movies, there's a history of mismanagement with this franchise that doesn't fit with your narrative there.
Lithose
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IOOTI, right? Because being tolerant of opposing views only happens with evangelical movies, apparently.
When did you become so aggressively stupid? Like seriously. My post expressly says the problem isn't SJW shit, its a lack of tolerance for other ideas. You keep wanting to go back to that for some reason, I have no idea why.
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chaos
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Go back to what? You're acting like the issues with this franchise just popped up right about the same time you got woke, and of course it's tied to your personal politics because everything is, of course. It's been floundering for decades with nothing like the momentum or societal impact it used to have. "lack of tolerance" didn't make those reboot movies.
Lithose
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The problem with the TNG movies was financial, the studios backed them with low budgets and you can see that problem in the product. The reboots were commercial successes, the writing and acting and production values were all good. I'm not sure why you'd consider them a problem. I think they are stupid as shit, but I can objectively say they are "good" modern movies for a broad audience. So your notion that the Franchise has been constantly mishandled just doesn't work in reality. They've had ups and downs, like all big Franchises.
These new shows have a different set of problems. Their production value is sky high, their acting is decent...They have all the trimmings of a good show. The problem is the writing is just...awful. Like some of the dialogue should never have survived "Extermination Pattern Number 5". Come on, the writing is fucking BAD. And that points to problems with the writers room...and when I see the official site extolling punishing Picard for his white privilege, and then see how all the writers have more credit for being activist on twitter than actually producing good work, its not hard to see what the problem is. You have the inability to call a spade a spade, I don't. Which is why I can say the Watchmen show was a good show despite clearly being full of SJW shit. Because I can segregate myself from my politics. You seem to mistake the ubiquity of me pointing to this issue as evidence I can't, rather than evidence that...maybe its a growing problem?
Hell, Chaos...in the 90's Adam Corrola and Jimmy Kimmel worked together. Do you think that would be possible today? Do you think a show like they ran would be possible where a broad range of ideas would be tolerated? Why do you think Academia went from 4 to 1 skews in the 90's, to 28 to 1 today? I get this annoys you, but if there is a fucking meme on this board about your inability to see a problem, maybe the issue is with you buddy.
chaos
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Yeah, that isn't the case. It isnt that i don't see any problems, its that my answer to every question isn't "the libs did this". Because I don't go into the general forums much, literally the only interactions I have with you anymore is when you respond to some post I make with some stuff about how its all really about SJW politics. Every single interaction. You say "I can segregate myself from politics" and you almost get there with criticizing the writing, and then hard turn into sjw politics. Because of course. The writing is bad, not because of politics, but because it isnt interesting and doesn't make sense in context of the existing world. The reboots were bad because they were just generic action movies with cameos from the Star Trek universe. Plenty of shows are being written by way more hard-core leftys than this one, and they arent all garbage. Star Trek of old was built around funamental premises that you would call leftist politics today, and they weren't garbage.
And to be honest, I dont even know that you're wrong, i don't know why all the new Star Trek sucks. All I know is that the writing is not good and hasn't been since basically the 90s. Just feels a little convenient that, yet again, it happens to line up with what you believe politically.
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Siliconemelons
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Problem is, "we" would lobe pre-discovery tone and pike and stuff... what it is, is that "we" do not trust the show runners, not disinterest in the "idea"
Grim1
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Interesting watch. Didn't know that Mooves gave Kurtzman such a strong contract. What a moron. And because of it, Kurtzman will probably be fucking up Star Trek for a long time.
What a shame. Star Trek has had it's share of ups and downs. Lots of downs actually. But Trek somehow always managed to keep the faith with the fans, in spite of the hiccups. Kurtzman killed that faith. What a turd.
Have to give Abrams his due too. That first Trek movie he did was fun, not really Trek, but it was fun. But that seeming success set Trek on the path to ruin. Much like he did to Star Wars.
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Mist
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The writing on everything sucks right now because subtlety is just totally lost on people, or its not profitable so people don't do it.
The cable news networks proved that profitability in media comes from just giving your audience exactly what they want, rather than actually challenging them, and all other media followed suit soon afterwards.
Media aimed at liberals doubles down as being blatantly SJWy just as much as media aimed at 'conservative' types doubles down at being hick or suburban Duck Dynnasty/Real Housewives bullshit. Every character is written to fit into as bland an archetype as possible. No one is out there looking to challenge their audiences with anything that's thought-provoking.
Liberals didn't do this. Capitalism did this.
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