TBT-TheBigToe
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Still trying to figure out how they could so completely and utterly fuck up Star Wars, I see.
Star Wars general purpose movie stuff
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Chukzombi
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Star Wars was already damaged at the time, Prequels made money, but they were not as good as the OT. Team Lucas of the late 90s wasnt all on board with what it wanted to do. the OT should have remained those three films and maybe some video games based on them. then people move on to something else. according to RLM, they think Lucas got very jealous of James Cameron's Titanic breaking all time box office records and so he decided to get the band back together for another trilogy. yes this was a trilogy promised back in the early 80s, but it clearly wasnt something Lucas was working on when the 80s ended. Star Wars was done, it was retired, maybe it was Titanic that brought it back, i dont know. but whatever the prequels were, it wasnt what people envisioned in their heads as Star Wars.
when TFA came out, people flocked to see it and thought or rather hoped this was going to be real Star Wars, they must have bought the IP for some other reason other than making a quick buck. they must have had a great idea for a new trilogy and we would get all our old friends like Luke Leia, Han, Chewie and the droids back and Star Wars goodness would return. its what we wanted to believe. instead we got hoodwinked by people with some kind of new agenda about vaginas being smarter and stronger than penises. it was never about penis power, but here we are.
Valderen
Space Pirate
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TFA showed that there was still huge interest in Star Wars at the time, even after the prequels that were not exactly well received.
Disney just didn't understand who to market the movies toward. They were seeking a new audience rather than capitalized on a huge already existing audience. An audience that was older and had kids and they would have organically built a new audience.
They chose to antagonized the existing fanbase which turned on the franchise, while at the same time putting sub par movie that didn't attract any new audience.
So they fucked the existing audience and didn't create a new one. Now they have no clue what to do.
I still believe that a lot of Star Wars fan would come back if they put out a good movie, but it would required a lot of work from Disney to rebuild the trust. It would also require them to realize that for the most part, the success of Star Wars goes through the boomers fanbase which they will never admit in today's social climate. Going after older white man as the main audience isn't something that Disney would do.
Disney just didn't understand who to market the movies toward. They were seeking a new audience rather than capitalized on a huge already existing audience. An audience that was older and had kids and they would have organically built a new audience.
They chose to antagonized the existing fanbase which turned on the franchise, while at the same time putting sub par movie that didn't attract any new audience.
So they fucked the existing audience and didn't create a new one. Now they have no clue what to do.
I still believe that a lot of Star Wars fan would come back if they put out a good movie, but it would required a lot of work from Disney to rebuild the trust. It would also require them to realize that for the most part, the success of Star Wars goes through the boomers fanbase which they will never admit in today's social climate. Going after older white man as the main audience isn't something that Disney would do.
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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It's fucking Star Trek, how critical of an eye should I be using? Compared to the 2 follow ups, the first one was a much better film imo. It also, again, opened up some interesting ways they could take a reboot in different directions from the original...which he or decision makers above him mostly ignored afterwards, partially why the followups were complete shit.
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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If the original point we seemed to be discussing was who was more responsible for Last Jedi being shit, the guy who made it, or the guy who actually left some possibilities for it not to be shit...that's kind of what I'm getting at.
Also again, the point has always been that Force Awakens was the least bad of the sequel trilogy. By itself, it was pretty vanilla and fine. You basically just listed some of the many reasons Last Jedi was complete and utter shit. Completely tossing ideas and having nothing of any substance to replace it with was just trash.
Fist bump on not watching the 3rd one, I have zero interest in ever seeing it. Or the future Rey movies. Shit is too broke to fix.
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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Rian Johnson is responsible for the sequels being shit, with Kathleen Kennedy and Bob Iger for enabling him. How is this even up for debate?
Yes the mystery boxes would have probably have had things in them worse than the fan theories, but they wouldn't have been empty like Rian Johnson made them.
Star Wars was too shallow for sequels, it's world building was in now non-canon books and the children's animated shows which doesn't work for a movie everyone will see. They had to do the world building in the movies and they didn't and are back to TV show world building few people will see.
It's too late. It's done. We don't need Lord of the Rings sequels either, it's fine.
Yes the mystery boxes would have probably have had things in them worse than the fan theories, but they wouldn't have been empty like Rian Johnson made them.
Star Wars was too shallow for sequels, it's world building was in now non-canon books and the children's animated shows which doesn't work for a movie everyone will see. They had to do the world building in the movies and they didn't and are back to TV show world building few people will see.
It's too late. It's done. We don't need Lord of the Rings sequels either, it's fine.
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Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Yeah between the low note the previous run of Trek movies ended on, the visual spectacle, and the nostalgia of seeing Leonard Nimoy again, I used to think 2009 Trek was pretty solid too. Watching it again after Trek into Darkness and Ep 7 and you realize it's full of a lot of the same terrible shit, it just wasn't as obvious at first.
How the fuck does a supernova travel interstellar distances to destroy Romulus? If Sol somehow went nova it wouldn't even destroy Earth (of course it would wipe out all life but it wouldn't destroy the planet)
How the fuck does Spock see Vulcan's implosion as clearly as if he was in orbit of the planet when he's two whole goddamn sectors away on Delta Vega? Earth is closer to Vulcan than Delta Vega is.
How the fuck did the Enterprise even end up near Delta Vega to maroon Kirk there in the first place? Again, it's farther away from Vulcan than Earth is.
Why the fuck do starships even still exist if transporters have interstellar ranges? The enterprise had been at warp for quite a long time before Kirk and Scottie beam aboard it meaning it's probably dozens of lightyears away at that point. Obviously this is a much bigger and stupider plot point in the sequel when Khan is able to transport all the way from Earth to fucking Qo'nos, but it existed in this movie too.
Casually ignoring the devastating ramifications of creating a massive black hole at 5 AU in the Sol System.
And don't even get me started on the complete and utter fucking stupidity of "Red Matter" itself, even by the standards of some of the goofy shit that Star Trek has created in the past this is beyond absurd.
It's just full of the same stupid fucking Abrams bullshit like TFA featuring a superweapon that can individually target and destroy each planet in a solar system in a single firing from a third of the way across a galaxy slightly larger than ours and the destruction of those planets being plainly visible to the naked eye from another large interstellar distance.
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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I guarentee there are full novels written by now to explain the plot holes. That's half of expanded universe books for stuff like this.
I did see a youtube video a while ago that described something like Red Matter. I forget what it was exactly. Some sort of exotic star made of quarks that would turn anything it touched into quarks and wouldn't need much extra mass to become a black hole.
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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How the fuck do their warp drives and transporters actually work in the first place? Why are shields only as strong as the plot needs them to be in every single piece of star trek fiction that exists...etc, etc, etc.
I agree some of that stuff stretched any kind of even "relative to this universe setting" logic, but in general I worry less about on the whole. When I'm watching Interstellar, yeah, I worry far more about whether or not shit is actually correct versus Star Trek/Star Wars movies.
And while Earth wouldn't be completely destroyed if Sol went supernova, the side of the planet facing it would be completely fucked instantly, while the rest heated up to something like 15 times the temperature on the surface of the sun (not important, just cool fact to look up).
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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they probably arent ditching Rachel, i mean even if they did. she still got paid. might as well use her footage. what i do think is they are digitally erasing all the ridiculous actors who replaced the dwarves and will be inserting the animated Polar Express quality dwarves in the above picture. i still think the story is going to get tweaked so Rachel isnt a complete girlboss and does maybe sort of need a man to help her. the original Snow White was Disney's first animated feature length film. doing it the Zegler way was sacrilege to Disney fans everywhere. negrofying Little Mermaid was bad, but completely dismantling their roots is beyond belief.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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Man I brainfarted and thought this was the snow white thread. I dun goofed.
And yes supposedly that last star wars movie was in reshoots almost up to its release date.
Chris
Potato del Grande
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Yeah it's well known that the supernova would stop just short of Earth's atmosphere.
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jayrebb
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JJ's team said ROS was the most amount of studio meddling he's ever dealt with.
Scenes were changed down to the minute details by Disney themselves, not even Lucas Film.
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Chukzombi
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even if they fire her, they will just replace her with somebody just like her, or worse. at this point, the only way things could get better would be replacing Iger and all of the Disney wokesters running the show. then inserting people who care about traditional movies. then they fire the people who produce this woke content. then start the process of finding non woke directors/writers/producers to make non woke content. good luck with all that.
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Ambiturner
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Siliconemelons
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