Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

Siliconemelons · Feb 1, 2016

Kreugen_sl said:
But look at what they've done with the A-Wings in Rebels. Fuckin death traps.

And I translate Lucas talking about "new ships in every movie" = new toys to sell.

A-Wings have always been the lightest of the rebel ships and if your not using that agility etc. then your just in a little ship and will get blown up faster than if your in something bigger.

You have a spectrum from light/fast <----> slow/heavy - usually bombers

A-Wing X-Wing <-> Y-Wing B-Wing

So for there to be a large amounts of X and Y that makes sense- esp the battles in the force awakens - you are talking space and atmospheric fights - X-Wing is your best balance in that vs a Y- for those on planet fights you would mostly want A-Wings if all things being equal but also you had to consider you would most likely find yourself in both environments - thus a X-wing is the best overall choice.

As for rebel funding etc... they still are kind of outcast and not official...that was the entire point for the first order to be able to stand up to the "official" ruling party - that they where supporting the rebel while saying the first order was bad - while "officially" they both where groups operating outside the officially established government.

Also Poe's response and look of awe tells me that the first order was WAY more well off and "bigger" than he or the rebels thought when they took him out of the landing craft and he looked around the launch bay.

Muurloen · Feb 1, 2016

Famm_sl said:
F-111 probably better for B-wing yeah. Isn't the F-15 faster than the 16? That's why I chose it for the A. F-16 being primarily designed as air superiority dogfighter but then used in a variety of roles seemed to match X-wing. You're probably right on those two though, a bit interchangeable comparisons in some ways.

There's no doubt the Y-Wing was the rebellion's A-10 though, which makes it obviously the coolest SW fighter.

Y-Wing is an A-6 Intruder. Slow as balls bomber with not much it can do to defend itself.

Royal · Feb 1, 2016

Muurloen_sl said:
Y-Wing is an A-6 Intruder. Slow as balls bomber with not much it can do to defend itself.

Especially when you come in on 'em from behind.

LadyVex_sl · Feb 2, 2016

Royal_sl said:
You can have whatever definition of it you wish to prescribe to but that's not the same definition that the typical Star Wars fan will have, it's not the definition that Lucas had when he was calling all of the shots, and more importantly it's not the definition that the currently rules within the franchise. I don't know what percentage of the public that goes to these movies is aware of exactly what constitutes canon currently but I would say it's significant. This isn't a new movie property the way the LoTR Trilogy was when it first came out. Canon extending far beyond the movies is a reality that has existed with respect to Star Wars for more than a quarter century.

This.

One of the things that was fairly apparent to me was who the movies were "for" versus who they were meant to "lure".

There were a shit ton of things in the movie that just seemed second nature or common place, because I've played the games and read the books and watched the movies, etc, etc. It's not all canon anymore, but even the stuff that was cut still utilized very specific guidelines for things like tech and the like.

There are things that aren't explicitly stated in the movies, but that we *know* from outside material, and while you can argue importance on enjoyment of the film, it still fleshes out the world in a way that makes the Star Wars Universe far more meaty. And this isn't a new thing - there are tons of series that let writers, artists, etc expand upon what they've created, to the point where every part is a piece of a puzzle, and once it's all together, BAM. (Even TFA had companion shit that came out with it, explaining the origins of some of the major characters, and that especially played a gigantic role in how I thought of Finn. His about face from his affiliation is far more understandable when you realize how he interacted with the other cadets.)

And whatever, we got some pretty fucking awesome new stormtrooper units so I'll take it.

Abefroman · Feb 2, 2016

Conefed · Feb 2, 2016

I fucking hate Lego comedy.

Greyform · Feb 2, 2016

PosterOfStuff_sl said:
That is a really lame reason.

couldn't disagree more. I felt like episode 7 reset Star wars and put it back on track. The absolute only thing I didn't like about the movie was I could not stand Adam Driver not the character Kylo Ren. Just the casting of him in that role. When he took his mask off I was like WTF? I mean you have to look at Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher and cast someone who actually looks like he might have been their offspring. But that's a pretty nit picky thing.

Oatlord_sl · Feb 2, 2016

Greyform_sl said:
couldn't disagree more. I felt like episode 7 reset Star wars and put it back on track. The absolute only thing I didn't like about the movie was I could not stand Adam Driver not the character Kylo Ren. Just the casting of him in that role. When he took his mask off I was like WTF? I mean you have to look at Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher and cast someone who actually looks like he might have been their offspring. But that's a pretty nit picky thing.

Yeah, they really should have kept the helmet on him the whole time. He took it off and instantly became a whiny little bitch.

LadyVex_sl · Feb 3, 2016

I think that was sort of the point though. We see this dude who is a badass and can stop blaster fire in midair, and then he takes the helmet off and it's a kid. He wasn't as bad as Anakin Skywalker but yea.

I think the juxtaposition of someone who is probably on the cusp of being this crazy ass Sith and this kid who isn't sure where he belongs was done really well. I was a little surprised at the casting to begin with, but I thought he pulled it off pretty well. Certainly better than christensen pulled off Skywalker.

Miguex · Feb 3, 2016

LadyVex_sl said:
I think that was sort of the point though. We see this dude who is a badass and can stop blaster fire in midair, and then he takes the helmet off and it's a kid. He wasn't as bad as Anakin Skywalker but yea.

I think the juxtaposition of someone who is probably on the cusp of being this crazy ass Sith and this kid who isn't sure where he belongs was done really well. I was a little surprised at the casting to begin with, but I thought he pulled it off pretty well. Certainly better than christensen pulled off Skywalker.

It was exactly the point. Somewhere along the line leading up to now, I remember reading something along these lines. Evil people don't have to look evil. In fact, many people that do bad things look totally normal. That is exactly the dichotomy they are addressing in this, and that was addressed at the end of Return of the Jedi. We spent all this time thinking Vader is some monster under that armor, and once Luke gets his mask off, we see he's just a messed up old man with regret and love in his eyes. Kylo is a completely different person with his mask on, or off. On, he's the monster. Off, he's uncertain and confused. The movie nailed this.

moontayle · Feb 3, 2016

Sacel_sl said:
I fucking hate Lego comedy.

Fuck you. The LEGO games are all pretty good, lots of stuff to do, and the humor fits the playing experience. Except Dimensions. Fuck that money grab with a rusty rebar.

That said, I wonder about the content level in this one. Need more info.

Conefed · Feb 3, 2016

LadyVex_sl said:
I think that was sort of the point though. We see this dude who is a badass and can stop blaster fire in midair, and then he takes the helmet off and it's a kid. He wasn't as bad as Anakin Skywalker but yea.

I think the juxtaposition of someone who is probably on the cusp of being this crazy ass Sith and this kid who isn't sure where he belongs was done really well. I was a little surprised at the casting to begin with, but I thought he pulled it off pretty well. Certainly better than christensen pulled off Skywalker.

Agree 100%
And I think his jaw does look like Harrison Ford's.
I was slightly distracted by how much he reminded me of John Snow..

The movie was great and I'm so glad they didn't go crazy with it, ala Star Trek.

My two changes:
1) Don't have Gwendoline Christie give in so easy - in fact, put her somewhere else: credit to BelatedMedia for that suggestion.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens Movie Review [SPOILERS] (Belated Media) - YouTube
2) Ren's lightsaber battle was super weak - like Emperor limp wristed weak. Even though Kylo was shot and weak, he should have battered that weak shit around

Drakain · Feb 3, 2016

Sacel_sl said:
Agree 100%
And I think his jaw does look like Harrison Ford's.
I was slightly distracted by how much he reminded me of John Snow..

The movie was great and I'm so glad they didn't go crazy with it, ala Star Trek.

My two changes:
1) Don't have Gwendoline Christie give in so easy - in fact, put her somewhere else: credit to BelatedMedia for that suggestion.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens Movie Review [SPOILERS] (Belated Media) - YouTube
2) Ren's lightsaber battle was super weak - like Emperor limp wristed weak. Even though Kylo was shot and weak, he should have battered that weak shit around

I liked his mom's comment at the end about it feeling like and old friend.

Void · Feb 3, 2016

I was very much in the camp of hating Kylo taking his helmet off the first time I saw it, but on a second viewing it worked a lot better because you could clearly see their intent of showing what an insecure, immature, and whiny pussy he was, hiding behind the "mask" of being a super badass with all these powers.

Tarrant · Feb 3, 2016

But I didn't want him to be an insecure emo brat, I wanted him to be that badass. Removing the helmet showed me what I didn't want him to be. Part of the allure of Vader was he was masked, it took away his humanity, it was when he was unmasked and began his redemption that you instantly changed how you felt about him. It was the same here...but it had the opposite effect.

I have hopes with his father being killed next movie he will get pushed over the edge into full on badass mode...but I have little hope for it.

radditsu · Feb 3, 2016

The only problem I had with Kylos is how small he looked on screen. It may have been the 3d experience. But the dude is (apparently) 6'3 and he doesn't look bigger than Boyega (5'9) or Daisy (5'7). Even with the mask he just looks...flat?

Runnen · Feb 3, 2016

Tarrant_sl said:
But I didn't want him to be an insecure emo brat, I wanted him to be that badass. Removing the helmet showed me what I didn't want him to be. Part of the allure of Vader was he was masked, it took away his humanity, it was when he was unmasked and began his redemption that you instantly changed how you felt about him. It was the same here...but it had the opposite effect.

I have hopes with his father being killed next movie he will get pushed over the edge into full on badass mode...but I have little hope for it.

I'm quite confident we'll see a much more badass Kylo Ren down the line, but I wanted to argue that point about Vader. In my opinion, Vader did not start changing only after he removed his mask. The first changes could be seen already in subtle gestures or his tone even with the helmet/mask still on as far back as Empire Strikes Back. When he looks down at Luke falling off Cloud City, he looks dejected, very disappointed in this turn of events, even with the mask on. And when Luke surrenders to the imperials on Endor to meet with Vader, he starts changing about what he talks about, no longer denying there IS good in him, simply stating "It is too late for me, son". I love Vader, but you cannot tell me that he remained a full on evil badass after this. He was a conflicted and interesting character of course, but the badass moments are not ALL his moments, he also had other moments of introspection, doubt, and even vulnerability. The same goes with Kylo Ren, full on badass with the mask, but also throws huge temper tantrums in front of his officers (the only reason people aren't pointing and laughing is because he's wielding a fucking lightsaber). Then the mask comes off and he is vulnerable and weak in front of Vader's helmet shrine, but also trying to be sympathetic with Rey during her interrogation, then you see doubt, fear even. And at the end he shows many more emotions that I daresay no actor in the whole franchise (admittedly not known for its amazing acting) has ever shown, with genuine emotional moments with Han, then horrible realization at what he's done and no turning back, then anger against Rey, and fear again when the duel goes south. Adam Driver carried a big part of why this movie worked, in my opinion.

Ambiturner · Feb 3, 2016

Are you seriously saying Vader had some very powerful, yet subtle, facial expressions with his mask on?

Runnen · Feb 3, 2016

Obviously not facial expressions with a mask on, but emotion can be apparent even through a mask depending on other factors, such as body language, head tilt, camera angle, lighting, etc.. Are you telling me Vader looks absolutely the same while he is strangling Admiral Ozzel and when he is looking at Luke drop to his doom?

etchazz · Feb 3, 2016

Runnen_sl said:
I'm quite confident we'll see a much more badass Kylo Ren down the line, but I wanted to argue that point about Vader. In my opinion, Vader did not start changing only after he removed his mask. The first changes could be seen already in subtle gestures or his tone even with the helmet/mask still on as far back as Empire Strikes Back. When he looks down at Luke falling off Cloud City, he looks dejected, very disappointed in this turn of events, even with the mask on. And when Luke surrenders to the imperials on Endor to meet with Vader, he starts changing about what he talks about, no longer denying there IS good in him, simply stating "It is too late for me, son". I love Vader, but you cannot tell me that he remained a full on evil badass after this. He was a conflicted and interesting character of course, but the badass moments are not ALL his moments, he also had other moments of introspection, doubt, and even vulnerability. The same goes with Kylo Ren, full on badass with the mask, but also throws huge temper tantrums in front of his officers (the only reason people aren't pointing and laughing is because he's wielding a fucking lightsaber). Then the mask comes off and he is vulnerable and weak in front of Vader's helmet shrine, but also trying to be sympathetic with Rey during her interrogation, then you see doubt, fear even. And at the end he shows many more emotions that I daresay no actor in the whole franchise (admittedly not known for its amazing acting) has ever shown, with genuine emotional moments with Han, then horrible realization at what he's done and no turning back, then anger against Rey, and fear again when the duel goes south. Adam Driver carried a big part of why this movie worked, in my opinion.

Comparing Kylo Ren to Darth Vader is like comparing Pee Wee Herman to Hannibal Lecter.

Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

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