Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

pharmakos said:

this is either the best or the worst analogy i've ever heard. not sure which.

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Why can't it be both?

Wait for screener imo. Don't give these assholes any more money. What's next, they gonna recast a younger Han Solo and do an entire movie shitting on him?

ohkcrlho said:

I didn't know that guy before but from now on, I'll use this video every time i want to explain why this movie is horrible.

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My girlfriend used to work with that guy. He's a bit of a wiener who's trying to hard with his new makeover, but he brings up a lot of good points.

Also, a girl on my facebook feed just posted a "mind blown" type gif and "I just saw star wars". When someone asked her about it, she said it was awesome because all the female characters were strong, it was "awesome when Rose took back her explanation of the plan after Finn interrupted her", how the cast was strong and diverse, how great the wardrobe was, and a special mention to the makeup team for not caking on Rey's makeup unlike most other women in movies.... literally not a fucking sentence about the plot

Araysar said:

uh, THE RESISTANCE has nothing to do with the caps. Back in OT, it was called THE REBELLION. Why do you think they changed it?

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I'm guessing someone has already answered this, but they were called the resistance in The Force Awakens... in 2015. It's not Star Wars' fault the SJWs are all melodramatic twats

araysar i love your avatar with the candy cane, motha fuckin Euronicorn!

Araysar said:

Whats the Star Wars equivalent of a Worf?

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Amzin said:

"The Jedi must end because they failed too much and they were just a random ass religion created by people anyway" turned into "no way we need the Jedi because reasons and it wasn't their fault and the Force" blah blah.

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That's really not the understanding that Luke came out to on the other side of his self-imposed exile. It was what Yoda told him.

Yeah, the Jedi fucked up. They got bogged down in "being Jedi" instead of being what was needed for the times during which they collapsed. But he also told him that part of the burden of being a master is knowing that those you teach will surpass you. You will be outshined by them. They take what you know, that you then pass on to them, and build upon it. And that part of what you pass on, indeed one of the most valuable things you pass on, is what you learned from failure. And in that the burden carries with it hope. That the mistakes of the past will stay in the past.

And that was why the Jedi Order didn't need to just end and be forgotten because it was flawed to the point of broad failure. It needed to survive in order to pass on what was learned from an honest appraisal of it's flaws.

Not as deep or profound as some would probably try to make it. But it was more than just reasons.

Lightning Lord Rule said:

My god, it's worse than we thought. According to this, and the RLM video (about 28:50 into it) JJ didn't give any direction this trilogy is going to take going forward to Rian Johnson. They didn't write the trilogy out before hand, with a coherent direction for all three movies, they're just doing them one at a time with nothing to link the three together.

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Lucasfilm said this themselves quite some time ago. They want to give each director as blank a canvas as possible. It's why none of the stuff like books, shows, or games take place at any point time wise beyond where the current saga is. They're all set before it so as not to fence the directors in.

I understand the motivation for doing that. I mean Lucas didn't have some detailed story map laid out when he made the OT. They evolved movie to movie. And it's no small thing to get someone locked in for 3 big budget movies when you're on the schedule they are. The development and production of the saga films overlaps (Johnson was writing TLJ while TFA was in active production for example). I think that was their motivation for saying they might not do any more saga films for a while and stick to just the one off anthology movies. And it's probably why they've given Johnson a full trilogy that won't begin production for a long time yet. So he can map the whole thing out to some level of detail (even though he may not direct them beyond the first one). Though that could actually have some question marks over it now, if the negative reactions to TLJ end up being substantial.

Lightning Lord Rule said:

My god, it's worse than we thought. According to this, and the RLM video (about 28:50 into it) JJ didn't give any direction this trilogy is going to take going forward to Rian Johnson. They didn't write the trilogy out before hand, with a coherent direction for all three movies, they're just doing them one at a time with nothing to link the three together.

Holy shit, these people are functionally retarded. It really is the people who did Lost being put in charge of Star Wars and then completely fucking it up. The only way they could have done worse would have been to hire Damon Lindelof.

After TFA:

JJ: Ok, there you go Rian, you're up!
RJ: Cool, so where is it you're going with all of these characters?
JJ: No idea! You think I planned this out or something?
RJ: Oooook....So what do you want me to do? And how will that tie into EP 9?
JJ: Do I look like George Lucas to you? Ask Kathleen Kennedy, she might have my notes from 3 years ago on googledocs or something.
KK: Here's a copy of the original Frozen script, just go with that, but without the songs.
RJ: I've got some even BETTER ideas!​

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This was what we discussed not only in the beginning of this thread but at some point in TFA thread as well and it's really frustrating. I believe it shows just how disjointed the movies are and it's unfortunate because movies like Harry Potter, who rotated directors and other personnel were simply able to create unique visions and styles but from a source material. It was extremely unfortunate that everything set up, built up, and kept us talking from TFA was washed away. For all of TFA's fault, it did keep us theorizing and at the edge of our seats for some resolve. One of my biggest complaints from TLJ is that I really have nothing specific to theory craft or analyze frame by frame to see if it leads to anything in the next installment. I pretty much have to kick back and say, "Now what?" For someone like me that relishes in hype and plays the game of what could be, they really took that away from me. What good are movies like Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. if that's missing? Seriously, people were hacking computers, leaking stuff, and all kinds of madness when The Deathly Hallows was nearing its book release. There was some level of that following TFA but I don't see any of that happening and I hope JJ really delivers to the fans and makes Johnson's decisions in 8 worth it.

Muligan said:

For all of TFA's fault, it did keep us theorizing and at the edge of our seats for some resolve. One of my biggest complaints from TLJ is that I really have nothing specific to theory craft or analyze frame by frame to see if it leads to anything in the next installment. I pretty much have to kick back and say, "Now what?".

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I think it's pretty easy to see what Johnson was going for. The "twist" of TLJ was the full inversion of ESB. He didn't rehash it, he turned it on it's head. No one went into ESB with a laundry list of expectations, just a general question of "I wonder what's gonna happen next?". It was afterwards that you formed your very specific questions (What's gonna happen to Han? How is Luke gonna fight with only one hand and no lightsaber? What are Lando and Chewie gonna be up to?). TLJ has done the opposite of that. It took a lot of specific questions and left you with "Well fuck, what now?".

I think Lucasfilm got very sensitive to all of the rehash criticisms coming out of TFA, but they may have allowed Rian Johnson be too clever by half as the answer to those. I, on balance, liked his movie. But even I can see the problem with asking people to spend the next two years pondering nothing in particular.

Man it's strange reading a respected poster with a Gene Hackman avatar saying they like something that assassinated Luke's character while agreeing they didn't leave enough questions to be answered in 9.

At this point I'm feeling like JJ's film will be "just kidding!" Now we'll have Clones of the Emperor, Luke, and Ewan aged Obi all awaken and fight in a hunger games to end all hung....oh fuck I hope they aren't reading this post!

Daezuel said:

Man it's strange reading a respected poster with a Gene Hackman avatar saying they like something that assassinated Luke's character while agreeing they didn't leave enough questions to be answered in 9.

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Well I said after I saw it was going to run hot and cold on it. There are things I really liked about it but that doesn't prevent me from seeing it's problems.

And I was never a big Luke guy. Han and R2 were always my boys. That's part of what makes seeing Luke shifted from where we last saw him as much as he was in this a non-issue for me. I totally get how Luke fans and even some of the more general Star Wars fans would be unhappy with it though.

So you have no problem with the way Han's character has been treated?

Daezuel said:

So you have no problem with the way Han's character has been treated?

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What in particular in how he was handled?