Jive Turkey
Karen
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There's just something timeless about the style. Even the set design is much better than today. By using light and shadow to hide their flaws, they wind up with a much more powerful visual
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
- Thread starter Miguex
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
There's just something timeless about the style. Even the set design is much better than today. By using light and shadow to hide their flaws, they wind up with a much more powerful visual
Chanur
Shit Posting Professional
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This gets a bit of a pass from me because its a Star Wars movie and visually its an enjoyable spectacle. That being said its a very poorly made movie.
This movie is summed by the plot is moving the characters, the characters are not moving the plot. This leads to a disjointed feeling and characters doing something that is well outside their established personality.
The problems here go well beyond this.
Fin who I really liked in the first movie spends this one waffling back and forth a bit with no pivotal moment to cement his deciding not to run. The plot needs him to do something so he goes and does it, when five minutes earlier he was going to desert. It should have built to him resolving to stick this thing out even though he wants to run. Instead it was a light switch.
Luke, his personality obviously did not match the original trilogy as explained well here several times. I did enjoy his final scene with the two suns. That was well done. Then 2 minutes later they have to slam you over the head with he died peacefully. Well no fucking shit the final scene laid that out pretty well.
Rey, I still like but they fucked up her backstory so much in this. She obviously has been trained some before, she can use the force and fight somewhat. She knew the temple. Its plain, but they continue to dick around with this, making her character a bit erratic, but to me this is a minor issue.
Speed Star Wars edition was dumb as was Holdo not explaining her plan to her officers making it seem like she was a traitor. Pointless. Her death while cool looking had absolutely no meaning as she is literally a throw away character. It should have been Ackbar or Leia in that scene then it would have weight.
Phasma, there was some build in the first movie and Fin facing her should have been pivotal in his character development, instead it is handled so poorly it has no consequence and is insignificant.
There was so many seeds that could have blossomed into a truly great trilogy, really developing the Force is neutral and its people that use it for good or evil and how Rey needs to have a new approach to this and not just take up the mantle of the old Jedi religion. Instead it gets mentioned and thrown away and its more of the same.
All the problems with this movie have nothing to do with the way they wanted the story to go and everything to do with poor story telling. If they had taken the same decisions but properly laid them out and built them up it could have been magnificent. Instead we get a visually stunning mishmash that is hollow.
The problems here go well beyond this.
Fin who I really liked in the first movie spends this one waffling back and forth a bit with no pivotal moment to cement his deciding not to run. The plot needs him to do something so he goes and does it, when five minutes earlier he was going to desert. It should have built to him resolving to stick this thing out even though he wants to run. Instead it was a light switch.
Luke, his personality obviously did not match the original trilogy as explained well here several times. I did enjoy his final scene with the two suns. That was well done. Then 2 minutes later they have to slam you over the head with he died peacefully. Well no fucking shit the final scene laid that out pretty well.
Rey, I still like but they fucked up her backstory so much in this. She obviously has been trained some before, she can use the force and fight somewhat. She knew the temple. Its plain, but they continue to dick around with this, making her character a bit erratic, but to me this is a minor issue.
Speed Star Wars edition was dumb as was Holdo not explaining her plan to her officers making it seem like she was a traitor. Pointless. Her death while cool looking had absolutely no meaning as she is literally a throw away character. It should have been Ackbar or Leia in that scene then it would have weight.
Phasma, there was some build in the first movie and Fin facing her should have been pivotal in his character development, instead it is handled so poorly it has no consequence and is insignificant.
There was so many seeds that could have blossomed into a truly great trilogy, really developing the Force is neutral and its people that use it for good or evil and how Rey needs to have a new approach to this and not just take up the mantle of the old Jedi religion. Instead it gets mentioned and thrown away and its more of the same.
All the problems with this movie have nothing to do with the way they wanted the story to go and everything to do with poor story telling. If they had taken the same decisions but properly laid them out and built them up it could have been magnificent. Instead we get a visually stunning mishmash that is hollow.
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Just saw this last night, and I wanted to sleep on it before writing about it.
This was a terrible movie. Terrible at being Star Wars, terrible at being a movie in general. Things were pretty, and there were some good performances that miraculously resulted from an absolutely god-awful script, but that's about it.
I'm going to say it: This was prequel level bad. I'd put this on par with Phantom Menace(the worst of the prequels), if not worse, since at least with TPM I didn't actively feel annoyed, and disgusted upon walking out of the theater. TPM reaction was more "wait... what?" combined with some mild disappointment after you thought about some of the things you just saw. TLJ was me shaking me head for the last 10 minutes of the movie, and then actively becoming more angry on the drive home. And this is speaking as someone who enjoyed TFA, and even enjoyed parts of R1, despite it being severely flawed.
TL;DR:
The more I think on it, the more I hate this movie. I don't use that word frivolously. This has to be one of the biggest cases of wasted potential in a movie I can think of.
Don't go see it. Don't waste your money. Don't give any money to Disney, a corporate monstrosity that is proving day by day it has less and less idea of what constitutes good entertainment.
This was a terrible movie. Terrible at being Star Wars, terrible at being a movie in general. Things were pretty, and there were some good performances that miraculously resulted from an absolutely god-awful script, but that's about it.
I'm going to say it: This was prequel level bad. I'd put this on par with Phantom Menace(the worst of the prequels), if not worse, since at least with TPM I didn't actively feel annoyed, and disgusted upon walking out of the theater. TPM reaction was more "wait... what?" combined with some mild disappointment after you thought about some of the things you just saw. TLJ was me shaking me head for the last 10 minutes of the movie, and then actively becoming more angry on the drive home. And this is speaking as someone who enjoyed TFA, and even enjoyed parts of R1, despite it being severely flawed.
So, where to begin? Most people are citing the characterization of Luke as the main flaw of the movie - and I agree, his entire character was taken out back and messily dismembered with a lightsaber, as Lithose has laid out - but I would argue the movie has far more fundamental flaws.
Narrative Structure
There basically isn't one. A movie must build up to some climax, a payoff, an event that changes the characters and ends the rising action of the plot. Go ahead and name the climax in this movie. Was it Snoke's death? There's like 30-40 minutes more movie left, and he wasn't built up enough for his death to be an effective climax. Was it Smug Laura Dern lightspeed ramming Snoke's ship (which was an awesome effect, I'll grant you. But a couple awesome effects do not a good movie make)? There's tons more movie left. How about Luke's fight with Kylo? That was cool, until we find out HE'S NOT ACTUALLY THERE. The point of having a fight with someone is that you're risking death, but Luke wasn't risking anything there, so it's just a bluff. Also, Kylo's character is unaffected by this fight, he's still just doggedly pursuing the rebels and acting pissed off. The rebels aren't affected by this, they could have likely escaped without the 3 minutes of stall time Luke provided.
This will be an unfair comparison, but compare that "climax" with ESB. The climax of ESB isn't the actual fight between Vader and Luke, but the most famous plot reveal/twist in cinematic history: "No, I am your father". HOLY SHIT! IS HE? Was he lying?! I MUST KNOW
Now you want an even worse comparison? TPM had a better payoff, a better climax that TLJ. The whole movie was leading up to the fight with Darth Maul. The trailers for the whole thing foreshadowed this and the whole movie built up to it. Yes, the rest of the shit going on with the gungans and droid bullshit was terrible, but the fight with Maul was what we wanted to see, and we got a great scene out of it. And this from a movie that was almost completely irrelevant, a movie that should never have been written around a kid as young as Anakin was. The fact that TLJ is making me think of TPM is even more annoying as I type this.
NOTHING MAKES SENSE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY
They were going for: This is our Most Desperate Hour, Our guys are in Trouble! They went way over the top with this though. Ok, so the rebels are on a planet, and about to get bombarded by that dreadnought. Ok, fine. So the rebels nuked Starkiller base in TFA, killing tons of FO ships and guys and their most important weapon, but the rebels are even more fucked in the grand scheme of things after that? Why? Could they not get anyone to build more ships for them? Wouldn't that crushing victory bring more systems and people to their cause? Nope, we get the message that these few rebels on that planet, these last few ships, are all that's left of the rebellio..... I mean, OOPS, Resistance (/facepalm). If that's the case, and there's only a few hundred of them left, aren't they completely fucked no matter if they're killed or not? If the Allies whittled down the Nazis to a few hundred dudes and 3 ships, they'd consider the war won and move on, even if one of those few people left were Hitler or Himmler or any of those fucks. They wouldn't be committing tons of starships to be ambushed or killed in a prolonged guerilla action. You'd track the survivors, use spies and assassins and publicly claim they were already dead, while consolidating your position and power.
This kind of story worked in the OT because you always got a sense that what we were looking at was important, but only a piece of the overall picture. No matter what happened here, there were always more outposts out there fighting, more people fighting against the empire and working to bring it down. At no point did they come out and say, "Hey, these few hundred dudes on Hoth are it, if we can kill all of them, the rebellion's toast!"
Then, they get to Crait, and say, whoops, we just need to get a message out to our allies, they'll come and get us! If you had allies all this time, why didn't you call them in to help you before all your ships got killed?!? Goddammit I hate this movie.
The PC Bullshit Has Gone Too Far
I didn't want to talk about this, but this shit was so obvious to me I have to. So skip this section if you want a politics free review.
They Ruined Everything They Set Up in TFA
The narrative cliffhangers from TFA:
Q: Who's Snoke? Where did he come from? How did a powerful dark side user arise when Palpatine would have snuffed out any competition during his reign, and Palps is dead? Why didn't Luke kill Snoke if he knew he was trying to corrupt Ben? How does a dude that looks like Swamp Thing attract a young kid to his cause?
A: Fuck you, Snoke's dead now and you get no answers.
Q: Why is Luke off on a faraway planet?
A: Because he's a huge pussy and couldn't handle the first set of students he tried to train. Did he really think there would be no risk to training people to have all the powers of the force? Fuck you, entire OT.
Q: Who's Rey's parents? Why did they leave her alone on Jakku? She has crazy strong innate force powers, she must be related to someone we've heard of?
A: Fuck you, she's nobody from nowhere. Even if Kylo is lying, this is a stupid lie for the audience, it would be better to have said nothing.
Q: So Rey's pretty strong in the force with no training, will she get some training from Luke and really come into her own so she can fight these powerful dark side users?
A: Fuck you, Rey does 2 lightsaber forms and gets 3 lines about the force and it's meaning, and that's it. No cool training sequences, no insights into the force, no instructions from the 15,000 year old Sacred Jedi Texts(!) that are burned up for the lulz, fuck you for even thinking that.
No Foreshadowing for Anything to do with Episode 9
What's left now for episode 9 to look forward to? Nothing. I'm looking forward to precisely nothing going forward.
Rey has no one to train with, except force ghosts, maybe? Meh. But she'll probably manifest some new never-before-seen force power and become the Chosen Sue, or some bullshit.
Kylo Ren is still the same guy, except now he has no Snoke to check his emo outbursts. But I guess we have to kill him now that he's the big bad. Meh.
The Resistance is still fucked, but I guess Luke's astral projection inspired the galaxy, or some shit, when destroying Starkiller Base didn't. /facepalm
I don't give 2 fucks about Finn, Poe, or any other resistance idiots, so whatever they're doing I don't care.
Compare this to the end of ESB:
Was Vader REALLY Luke's father? I must know!
Will Han be Ok? I want to find out!
Will Luke become a true Jedi?
All of this was enough to make you want to see how things turned out for our heroes. For TLJ, we've got nothing and that's just sad.
Narrative Structure
There basically isn't one. A movie must build up to some climax, a payoff, an event that changes the characters and ends the rising action of the plot. Go ahead and name the climax in this movie. Was it Snoke's death? There's like 30-40 minutes more movie left, and he wasn't built up enough for his death to be an effective climax. Was it Smug Laura Dern lightspeed ramming Snoke's ship (which was an awesome effect, I'll grant you. But a couple awesome effects do not a good movie make)? There's tons more movie left. How about Luke's fight with Kylo? That was cool, until we find out HE'S NOT ACTUALLY THERE. The point of having a fight with someone is that you're risking death, but Luke wasn't risking anything there, so it's just a bluff. Also, Kylo's character is unaffected by this fight, he's still just doggedly pursuing the rebels and acting pissed off. The rebels aren't affected by this, they could have likely escaped without the 3 minutes of stall time Luke provided.
This will be an unfair comparison, but compare that "climax" with ESB. The climax of ESB isn't the actual fight between Vader and Luke, but the most famous plot reveal/twist in cinematic history: "No, I am your father". HOLY SHIT! IS HE? Was he lying?! I MUST KNOW
Now you want an even worse comparison? TPM had a better payoff, a better climax that TLJ. The whole movie was leading up to the fight with Darth Maul. The trailers for the whole thing foreshadowed this and the whole movie built up to it. Yes, the rest of the shit going on with the gungans and droid bullshit was terrible, but the fight with Maul was what we wanted to see, and we got a great scene out of it. And this from a movie that was almost completely irrelevant, a movie that should never have been written around a kid as young as Anakin was. The fact that TLJ is making me think of TPM is even more annoying as I type this.
NOTHING MAKES SENSE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY
They were going for: This is our Most Desperate Hour, Our guys are in Trouble! They went way over the top with this though. Ok, so the rebels are on a planet, and about to get bombarded by that dreadnought. Ok, fine. So the rebels nuked Starkiller base in TFA, killing tons of FO ships and guys and their most important weapon, but the rebels are even more fucked in the grand scheme of things after that? Why? Could they not get anyone to build more ships for them? Wouldn't that crushing victory bring more systems and people to their cause? Nope, we get the message that these few rebels on that planet, these last few ships, are all that's left of the rebellio..... I mean, OOPS, Resistance (/facepalm). If that's the case, and there's only a few hundred of them left, aren't they completely fucked no matter if they're killed or not? If the Allies whittled down the Nazis to a few hundred dudes and 3 ships, they'd consider the war won and move on, even if one of those few people left were Hitler or Himmler or any of those fucks. They wouldn't be committing tons of starships to be ambushed or killed in a prolonged guerilla action. You'd track the survivors, use spies and assassins and publicly claim they were already dead, while consolidating your position and power.
This kind of story worked in the OT because you always got a sense that what we were looking at was important, but only a piece of the overall picture. No matter what happened here, there were always more outposts out there fighting, more people fighting against the empire and working to bring it down. At no point did they come out and say, "Hey, these few hundred dudes on Hoth are it, if we can kill all of them, the rebellion's toast!"
Then, they get to Crait, and say, whoops, we just need to get a message out to our allies, they'll come and get us! If you had allies all this time, why didn't you call them in to help you before all your ships got killed?!? Goddammit I hate this movie.
The PC Bullshit Has Gone Too Far
I didn't want to talk about this, but this shit was so obvious to me I have to. So skip this section if you want a politics free review.
Leia was a moron. In the scheme of things, Poe taking a risk and sacrificing a few bombers and ships to take out a Dreadnought (successfully) was absolutely the right call. Sacrifice a few cheap bombers for a huge ship that must take years to build? A good commander takes that trade any time. WTF were they going to use those bombers for if not something like that? Then Poe gets back and she basically tells him, "This male macho bullshit risk-taking won't fly, I'm demoting you." Step back you, you, MAN, you. We women know best. This is reiterated by Dern and Leia's look and hand clasp. (Scissor me timbers, I guess we know what Leia was up to after Han took off!) Then Laura Dern basically does the same thing, by not communicating with her most effective and surely most senior pilot left alive. She has no plan except stall and pray. Except, oh wait! The plan was to distract them while we escape on small vulnerable unshielded uncloaked ships to a nearby planet. And then that plan goes horribly wrong and the FO kills most of the ships easily, because I guess she forgot the FO has scanners. Great plan idiot! No wonder the resistance can't find anyone to join up, who would follow a bunch of dried up old women to their certain deaths resulting from their obviously incompetent leadership?
The united colors of benetton casting: Even worse here than in R1. The actress that played Rose, just why? Why does she have to be fat and ugly? Can't they find a chick like Kaylee from Firefly? All the rebel supporting actors are just awful and are obviously just diversity hires. Even the FO had diversity hires manning their bridge equipment. It's Star Wars, make the diversity quota with aliens, not illegal aliens.
The Rich People's planet: JFC. Talk about ham-handed. Everything about this was terrible. From the flop eared endangered-species-list horses with near human faces, that are of course abused for sport. Apparently because Disney needed some PETA funding or something. The casino looked like it was a barely space-ified F. Scott Fitzgerald parody. Good god. Why not have them be gangsters? That's already established in Star Wars with the Hutts. And that little alien who was drunk and putting coins in BB8 reminded me of an alien Monopoly Guy.
Also, why would Finn park that ship on the beach? They don't have landing pads? They could have had a short scene where Finn pulls up to the casino and the valet gives him a look like, "You expect me to park this POS here somewhere? Filth"
Also, for there to be a rich people's planet makes no sense. The first thing a group like the first order or the empire does is confiscate everyone's money, so the only power in the galaxy is the FO/Empire, not the rich people. It's like the idea of there being rich bankers in the soviet union; the people in the soviet union that were rich were all part of the Communist party power structure. There was no room for anyone outside of the party that held any power.
The united colors of benetton casting: Even worse here than in R1. The actress that played Rose, just why? Why does she have to be fat and ugly? Can't they find a chick like Kaylee from Firefly? All the rebel supporting actors are just awful and are obviously just diversity hires. Even the FO had diversity hires manning their bridge equipment. It's Star Wars, make the diversity quota with aliens, not illegal aliens.
The Rich People's planet: JFC. Talk about ham-handed. Everything about this was terrible. From the flop eared endangered-species-list horses with near human faces, that are of course abused for sport. Apparently because Disney needed some PETA funding or something. The casino looked like it was a barely space-ified F. Scott Fitzgerald parody. Good god. Why not have them be gangsters? That's already established in Star Wars with the Hutts. And that little alien who was drunk and putting coins in BB8 reminded me of an alien Monopoly Guy.
Also, why would Finn park that ship on the beach? They don't have landing pads? They could have had a short scene where Finn pulls up to the casino and the valet gives him a look like, "You expect me to park this POS here somewhere? Filth"
Also, for there to be a rich people's planet makes no sense. The first thing a group like the first order or the empire does is confiscate everyone's money, so the only power in the galaxy is the FO/Empire, not the rich people. It's like the idea of there being rich bankers in the soviet union; the people in the soviet union that were rich were all part of the Communist party power structure. There was no room for anyone outside of the party that held any power.
They Ruined Everything They Set Up in TFA
The narrative cliffhangers from TFA:
Q: Who's Snoke? Where did he come from? How did a powerful dark side user arise when Palpatine would have snuffed out any competition during his reign, and Palps is dead? Why didn't Luke kill Snoke if he knew he was trying to corrupt Ben? How does a dude that looks like Swamp Thing attract a young kid to his cause?
A: Fuck you, Snoke's dead now and you get no answers.
Q: Why is Luke off on a faraway planet?
A: Because he's a huge pussy and couldn't handle the first set of students he tried to train. Did he really think there would be no risk to training people to have all the powers of the force? Fuck you, entire OT.
Q: Who's Rey's parents? Why did they leave her alone on Jakku? She has crazy strong innate force powers, she must be related to someone we've heard of?
A: Fuck you, she's nobody from nowhere. Even if Kylo is lying, this is a stupid lie for the audience, it would be better to have said nothing.
Q: So Rey's pretty strong in the force with no training, will she get some training from Luke and really come into her own so she can fight these powerful dark side users?
A: Fuck you, Rey does 2 lightsaber forms and gets 3 lines about the force and it's meaning, and that's it. No cool training sequences, no insights into the force, no instructions from the 15,000 year old Sacred Jedi Texts(!) that are burned up for the lulz, fuck you for even thinking that.
No Foreshadowing for Anything to do with Episode 9
What's left now for episode 9 to look forward to? Nothing. I'm looking forward to precisely nothing going forward.
Rey has no one to train with, except force ghosts, maybe? Meh. But she'll probably manifest some new never-before-seen force power and become the Chosen Sue, or some bullshit.
Kylo Ren is still the same guy, except now he has no Snoke to check his emo outbursts. But I guess we have to kill him now that he's the big bad. Meh.
The Resistance is still fucked, but I guess Luke's astral projection inspired the galaxy, or some shit, when destroying Starkiller Base didn't. /facepalm
I don't give 2 fucks about Finn, Poe, or any other resistance idiots, so whatever they're doing I don't care.
Compare this to the end of ESB:
Was Vader REALLY Luke's father? I must know!
Will Han be Ok? I want to find out!
Will Luke become a true Jedi?
All of this was enough to make you want to see how things turned out for our heroes. For TLJ, we've got nothing and that's just sad.
TL;DR:
The more I think on it, the more I hate this movie. I don't use that word frivolously. This has to be one of the biggest cases of wasted potential in a movie I can think of.
Don't go see it. Don't waste your money. Don't give any money to Disney, a corporate monstrosity that is proving day by day it has less and less idea of what constitutes good entertainment.
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LiquidDeath
Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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As someone with two small children, a boy and a girl, I'm sick of Disney's girl power bullshit that invades all of their programming.
In this movie there isn't a single time that a female makes a mistake. They are all heroic and brave and amazing. The men are the flawed characters in every part of the movie.
This idiocy is repeated in nearly every Disney show these days and it is disturbing. Even their commercials are all geared towards girls. "Dream Big Princess" and "Sister Day" are the most egregious.
In this movie there isn't a single time that a female makes a mistake. They are all heroic and brave and amazing. The men are the flawed characters in every part of the movie.
This idiocy is repeated in nearly every Disney show these days and it is disturbing. Even their commercials are all geared towards girls. "Dream Big Princess" and "Sister Day" are the most egregious.
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Valishar
Molten Core Raider
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LiquidDeath
Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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Touche.
Point still applies despite one female character that is never specifically revealed as a woman with a bit part making a single mistake.
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So I was talking with a friend last night... about how the movie seemed awkward with effectively 4 acts. Came up with a solution, which also rectifies the greatest injustice of the movie, AND lops off a solid 25 minutes of run time.
First, you don't kill Ackbar like a little bitch. Sorry Purple Hair McAnglenose, you're on the cutting room floor. Which also saves us all the stupid Poe nonsense with her.
Next, you remove all of Finn/Rose and just promise BDT a role in the next movie instead of this crap. Finn is recovering at a resistance base somewhere. The very few survivors make it to salt planet OK, which still leaves you where you need to be. (Tiny resistance, ready for next film)
Skip the whole salt planet thing. Have Luke confront Kylo on the dreadnought after Kylo wakes up and Rey is gone, which would have delayed him long enough for Ackbar to turn the main ship around towards the dreadnaught. This leads to the following exchange.
General Hux: They're turning? Open a channel... Resistance ship, we are not offering quarter, is this some kind of ruse?
Ackbar : No General Hux.... It's a trap.
Ackbar goes to light speed and exits a damn legend....
Next, you remove all of Finn/Rose and just promise BDT a role in the next movie instead of this crap. Finn is recovering at a resistance base somewhere. The very few survivors make it to salt planet OK, which still leaves you where you need to be. (Tiny resistance, ready for next film)
Skip the whole salt planet thing. Have Luke confront Kylo on the dreadnought after Kylo wakes up and Rey is gone, which would have delayed him long enough for Ackbar to turn the main ship around towards the dreadnaught. This leads to the following exchange.
General Hux: They're turning? Open a channel... Resistance ship, we are not offering quarter, is this some kind of ruse?
Ackbar : No General Hux.... It's a trap.
Ackbar goes to light speed and exits a damn legend....
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Brahma
Obi-Bro Kenobi-X
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Another couple issues I had!
Snoke. Maybe the best character in these new Star Wars movies, as far as dialogue, wit, and awesomeness goes. Ya. Let's kill him off. But keep that fat bitch. Star Wars needs more fat bitches. This mother fucker TELLS us he can read this dudes mind, and he can't see that shit coming? "But he was confused on WHICH light saber!" Come on. Fucker can connect two minds across the galaxy...but forgets that light saber is there. Let's build up the mystery of Snoke and then lets leave that hanging forever. ON TOP OF THAT...THEY HAD SEVERAL TIMES TO KILL CARRIE FISHER OFF CLEANLY, AND INSTEAD MADE HER DO WHATEVER THE FUCK THAT WAS...The one who is actually DEAD!
How badass would that have been if they did everything with Luke on the salty planet exactly the same, but he was actually there. Then leaves. Simple as that.
Phasma...Could have been Boba Fett levels of Star Wars nerd awesomeness...newp. Let's kill her off too.
It's like they totally went out of their way to separate themselves from the 1st film? WHY?
How badass would that have been if they did everything with Luke on the salty planet exactly the same, but he was actually there. Then leaves. Simple as that.
Phasma...Could have been Boba Fett levels of Star Wars nerd awesomeness...newp. Let's kill her off too.
It's like they totally went out of their way to separate themselves from the 1st film? WHY?
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Brahma
Obi-Bro Kenobi-X
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Nope...
It took a ship going light speed into another ship for THAT to happen. Gets a pass.
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Valishar
Molten Core Raider
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Let's ask a Disney representative:
Kylo Ren: Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. That's the only way to become what you are meant to be.
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The Edge
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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I've been defending the movie for the most part but I have many of the same complaints and I would like to know Rian Johnson's reasoning for some of the decisions...
1. Why was Phasma underutilized and killed off when she was a very marketable character? They missed their chance in TFA to make that Finn's rival and push it further in TLJ to then conclude their rivalry in 9.
2. Why did they not give Ackbar the heroic send off in place of Laura Dern? I thought this was obvious fan service that would have been an appropriate nod. They could have set Laura Dern later to me the next Leia but they missed that as well.
3. Why kill off Snoke without establishing a greater evil? Sorry, Kylo doesn't seal the deal for me. That was a great point made earlier and something I posted about as well. I'm not sure what purpose it served to steal the thunder of 9. They completely pulled the rug out from under this trilogy. I think I like the TLJ better than TFA simply because TFA means nothing now. Phasma, Snoke, the entire plot and where it lead us, has no purpose.
Again, I don't think it was enough to ruin the movie for me and I in no means feel it's prequel bad. Phantom Menace had Jar Jar and Pod Races remember. Don't forget the rest of the trilogy was riddled with horribly written and delivered love scenes. The Padme and Anakin moments were pure cringe. Obi-wan was the best part of the movies. Qui-Gon and Maul were both great but lasted for a single movie.
I really believe we forget the pattern of Stars Wars over the years. The OT had such enduring characters that become such part of the culture. The prequels were disastrous and that leaves the current trilogy in a tough spot. I think having different directors and/or writers hurt the current trilogy because they have such different interpretations of how you can be successful. JJ played it safe to a fault and Rian took such a rogue approach it hurt the film. Franchises such as Harry Potter pulled over using different directors and producers because they had preexisting source materials. These guys have a blank canvas and free reign of the material. I really feel bad for JJ. They're really going to have to hit a homerun with 9 to make 8 something we digest long term. Otherwise it will be all for naught.
2. Why did they not give Ackbar the heroic send off in place of Laura Dern? I thought this was obvious fan service that would have been an appropriate nod. They could have set Laura Dern later to me the next Leia but they missed that as well.
3. Why kill off Snoke without establishing a greater evil? Sorry, Kylo doesn't seal the deal for me. That was a great point made earlier and something I posted about as well. I'm not sure what purpose it served to steal the thunder of 9. They completely pulled the rug out from under this trilogy. I think I like the TLJ better than TFA simply because TFA means nothing now. Phasma, Snoke, the entire plot and where it lead us, has no purpose.
Again, I don't think it was enough to ruin the movie for me and I in no means feel it's prequel bad. Phantom Menace had Jar Jar and Pod Races remember. Don't forget the rest of the trilogy was riddled with horribly written and delivered love scenes. The Padme and Anakin moments were pure cringe. Obi-wan was the best part of the movies. Qui-Gon and Maul were both great but lasted for a single movie.
I really believe we forget the pattern of Stars Wars over the years. The OT had such enduring characters that become such part of the culture. The prequels were disastrous and that leaves the current trilogy in a tough spot. I think having different directors and/or writers hurt the current trilogy because they have such different interpretations of how you can be successful. JJ played it safe to a fault and Rian took such a rogue approach it hurt the film. Franchises such as Harry Potter pulled over using different directors and producers because they had preexisting source materials. These guys have a blank canvas and free reign of the material. I really feel bad for JJ. They're really going to have to hit a homerun with 9 to make 8 something we digest long term. Otherwise it will be all for naught.
Oblio
Utah
- 11,715
- 25,618
DirkDonkeyroot
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 878
- 1,444
I wonder how the lucrative Chinese market is going to react to the Asian “representation” in the film being the fat uggo lusting after the black dude.
If the reaction in the theater I go to in Hong Kong was any indication it won't be good. There was a great rustleing in the force anytime Finn showed up on screen, especially at the kiss.
- 5
Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
- 8,456
- 3,577
The more i digest the movie and read other viewpoints, the more i start to think its prequels bad.
I had a pretty long review about the positives, and most of what i covered is unrelated to all the negatives everyone else is mentioning. Like i was genuinely pleased with some of the new revelations about the Force and the path of some characters, but in the grand scheme of things, this movie is not memorable, doesn't progress the plot, doesn't do justice to your childhood heroes, and generally just shits all over the franchise.
As mentioned above, there's no climax, the 4 act thing doesn't work and even the special effects, while awesome, didn't even compare to TFA.
After seeing that starkiller effects again, that shit was dope, nothing in this movie compares. Also Harrison Ford puts it above this movie.
I really hope JJ can bring back the magic because Rian screwed us royally.
It actually pisses me off we didn't get even a couple of the awesome ideas ive seem presented just in this thread, let alone elsewhere. The Ackbar shit for one, what a tragedy.
Also...Luke shouldn't have died, that fight was a joke and a grave injustice, i really hope JJ can wave away that ending scene and bring him back for a proper send off... explain it away somehow, like maybe he can teleport or some shit now, maybe he shows up on Leias ship for real.
I had a pretty long review about the positives, and most of what i covered is unrelated to all the negatives everyone else is mentioning. Like i was genuinely pleased with some of the new revelations about the Force and the path of some characters, but in the grand scheme of things, this movie is not memorable, doesn't progress the plot, doesn't do justice to your childhood heroes, and generally just shits all over the franchise.
As mentioned above, there's no climax, the 4 act thing doesn't work and even the special effects, while awesome, didn't even compare to TFA.
After seeing that starkiller effects again, that shit was dope, nothing in this movie compares. Also Harrison Ford puts it above this movie.
I really hope JJ can bring back the magic because Rian screwed us royally.
It actually pisses me off we didn't get even a couple of the awesome ideas ive seem presented just in this thread, let alone elsewhere. The Ackbar shit for one, what a tragedy.
Also...Luke shouldn't have died, that fight was a joke and a grave injustice, i really hope JJ can wave away that ending scene and bring him back for a proper send off... explain it away somehow, like maybe he can teleport or some shit now, maybe he shows up on Leias ship for real.
- 5
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
- 3,231
- 901
If it makes anyone feel better... this is who is co-writing 9 with JJ.
Chris Terrio - Wikipedia
We're all doomed
Chris Terrio - Wikipedia
We're all doomed
- 2
Synj
Dystopian Dreamer
- 8,104
- 35,770
LOL, I liked this movie a whole lot more before I read your review.
Good takes.
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ohkcrlho
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 6,906
- 8,943
This trilogy is already fucked so I don't give a fuck who is in the next movie. They could even hire Uwe Bowl and Damon Lindelof, for all I care.If it makes anyone feel better... this is who is co-writing 9 with JJ.
Chris Terrio - Wikipedia
We're all doomed
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