StarCraft 2

Zaphid

Zaphid

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Also how the fuck is unchanged Colossus still in the game ?

It's soft cap, you have near and far mineral patches and the far ones need extra worker to mine 100%

Also I find it ironic that after all the eco modss and theorycrafting how SC1 economy was just flat out better and more interesting, Blizzard takes a dump on all of that
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Honestly how many times did you not start the game making workers, making a depot then making more workers. They're just removing that phase. It reminds of when they increased the number from BW to SC2 and people were equally pissed.

A new standard will be created and a new breed of cheese will emerge.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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Tenks_sl said:
Honestly how many times did you not start the game making workers, making a depot then making more workers. They're just removing that phase. It reminds of when they increased the number from BW to SC2 and people were equally pissed.

A new standard will be created and a new breed of cheese will emerge.
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I'm more concerned by the fact that you will be on a quest to strip mine as much of the map as possible, with your gas eco taking up significant amount of worker supply, for obvious reasons. At least you don't max out your eco on 3 bases now. They seem to be removing a lot of the hard counters in favor of micro, so that is good, but I'd be very surprised if they didn't have to redo at least half of the changes once the beta goes live.
 
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Tenks

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I wouldn't be shocked but at least they're willing to take drastic changes in consideration. Anything to move away from 3base deathball is a good move imo.
 
Ichu

Ichu

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That's pretty much where I sit. I think a number of the new units/changes are pretty dumb at first glance, but it's small beans compared to the economic changes which are really exciting. Those alone are enough to have me more optimistic about LotV than I thought I would ever be.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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Judging by the showmatches, Cyclone is literally Void Ray from WoL with bigger range and on wheels
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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They'll have to tone down just about everything. It outranges Lurkers ffs. I understand that they want some mobile mech AA, but from what was in the showmatch, it's warhound level of bullshit.
 
Quineloe

Quineloe

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Zaphid_sl said:
Also how the fuck is unchanged Colossus still in the game ?

It's soft cap, you have near and far mineral patches and the far ones need extra worker to mine 100%
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I don't get it, what's happening on the near patch when the worker is going home with the minerals? It's just flat out unmineable?

Why even fucking bother with the animation then. Just bring back the Warcraft3 night elf gold mine.
 
Ichu

Ichu

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Zaphid_sl said:
Judging by the showmatches, Cyclone is literally Void Ray from WoL with bigger range and on wheels
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It is a long range + anti air Diamondback from the WoL campaign if you remember that unit. Overall I'm not too worried because a lot of these units look like the HoTS reveal all over again, even down to the retarded animated for the new terran unit.

That being said, I think they need to commit one way or the other to a new economic scheme first, and then work on units.

From what I saw of the show matches yesterday, the economy seems to operate the same way it did before but with faster mining out. Right now it just means each race is spread thinner with the standard 3.25 base effective cap. Having 6 locations with a town hall doesn't mean you are on 6 bases when half of those are mined out. Unfortunately the vibe I got from Blizzard was that mined out expansions are actually meaningful.

They really need to make a saturated 4th-5th base viable without the need for boring stall tactics. You need 88 workers to 16/6 even four bases currently, which imo leads to boring stand-off shit like swarm hosts to hold the line so that you can build a bank while half your supply is tied up in workers. I think if they changed it so that having a 4th or even a 5th that is bringing in a wealth of resources while you still have the 3 traditional fully active bases will force a lot more action.
 
reavor

reavor

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so basically it seems to me that it's all gearing towards making the game faster and more spectator friendly. so build orders will be what determines a game pretty fast.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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Ichu_sl said:
It is a long range + anti air Diamondback from the WoL campaign if you remember that unit. Overall I'm not too worried because a lot of these units look like the HoTS reveal all over again, even down to the retarded animated for the new terran unit.

That being said, I think they need to commit one way or the other to a new economic scheme first, and then work on units.

From what I saw of the show matches yesterday, the economy seems to operate the same way it did before but with faster mining out. Right now it just means each race is spread thinner with the standard 3.25 base effective cap. Having 6 locations with a town hall doesn't mean you are on 6 bases when half of those are mined out. Unfortunately the vibe I got from Blizzard was that mined out expansions are actually meaningful.

They really need to make a saturated 4th-5th base viable without the need for boring stall tactics. You need 88 workers to 16/6 even four bases currently, which imo leads to boring stand-off shit like swarm hosts to hold the line so that you can build a bank while half your supply is tied up in workers. I think if they changed it so that having a 4th or even a 5th that is bringing in a wealth of resources while you still have the 3 traditional fully active bases will force a lot more action.
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That's exactly what all the experiments like starbow ended up with, more soft capped eco where even 3 workers mean a lot thanks to a single gas and Blizzard thought that solution was beneath them apparently. It's pretty obvious that most of the unit changes aren't very well thought out, hello to 4 corruptors melting a base in 5 seconds. I'm a bit underwhelmed so far, but IIRC it was the same with HotS, so hopefully they will figure shit out.

Weirdly enough, BOs determining games is what makes the game so casual unfriendly in the first place. Map changed from last time ? Better learn all the scouting patterns again and good luck figuring those out on the fly. Meta shifted ? Now your old BO gets destroyed. If you have a single BO that takes you 10 minutes into the game in reasonable amount of games, you will probably have a lot more fun.
 
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Most people are so bad at the game you can just have one meta-proof build and do nothing but that build. Last time I was trying to ladder that is all I did. I stopped trying to be cute and stay ontop of the meta I just found one build that gelled with my style and did it.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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Yes, that's how most people play, because tried and tested build betas random meta shit 9 times out of 10

LotV does jack shit for protoss AA. I look forward to chasing flying units with stalkers for the next 5 years. The showmatches look a bit embarrassing for Blizzard.
 
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Tenks

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I'd be interested to see if Cyclones are quite as good in non-archon mode. They require a ton of babysitting to do what they're doing and it is obvious one person is dedicated just to Cyclone micro. Also not sure why McHyun aren't experimenting with anything they're just going like vanilla gateway into robo builds when Soo Polt are just doing random shit with new units and wrecking them.

Lol you're reading hard into a game completely unfigured out. To deal with speed banshees you require an Oracle and Phoenix. Neither of which were on the field. I think to deal with Cyclones you need to open with Stalker/Sentry to trap them at the ramp and kill it while just protecting the ramp. Then eventually move into Tempest which will one-shot the thing. Like I said McHyun were just playing this like HotS.
 
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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You are way underestimating how powerful that Tempest is now. The fucker has passive Irradiate to everything. Like I said before you're reading extremely hard into showmatches against people who have never played the game before in a mode they'll never play in tournaments. Shit I think Mc/Hyun could have won with proxy gates since PoltSoo were just rushing tech every game. McHyun spent a ton of cash on gateway units which were getting ripped by tech.
 
W

Wrathcaster

WCS finals 2014 has been brutal from day 1. No idea how Blizzard could so colossally fuck up in their own tournament. First match of today in the semis, barely minutes in, and there's already a disconnect that's closing in on the 45 minute mark to fix. Happened in every fucking series yesterday.

What the actual fuck.
 
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