StarCraft 2

1a all day

Well, you are the last guy where it works.

Just had one guy turtle mech on daybreak for ages, then he did switch into air. Thank god I have flying siege tanks. They are pretty much unbeatable with storm against sky terran, because they turn battlecruisers into scrap.

You guys playing hots or just normal sc2? I don't even touch either one of my accounts anymore after picking up dota2.

just HotS now, much better than WoL

I was playing hots but I'm taking a break waiting for a hellbat nerf. TvT is beyond annoying.

I have a feeling you might be waiting until release then, they seem reluctant to nerf the new units' numbers and let the meta develop a bit. Air toss is pretty much the goto comp for mid/late pvp, so I just do timings that counter it and judging by my winrate in pvp, people don't expect it. There's no way to counter hellbats with build order ? I mean even the cheesier ways, like proxy robo became my daily bread in PvT

I don't know how much I agree with that statement. DKim said on the beta boards they're looking at buffing Widow Mine damage versus shields to make them more worthwhile in PvT. The Hellbat also got a complete rewrite and that is when the issue really came up. The removed the pre-igniter upgrade from the Hellbat mode, nerfed it's damage range and nerfed it's cone. They also made it better as an all purpose unit and made it do something like 30 damage versus light out of the box. So obviously a Hellbat looks at a marine and it dies.. Marauders do 10 damage per shot and they die just as quickly. If you try and FE and place a bunker at your front they just transform into Hellion mode, run past your bunker, then transform into Hellbat mode. If you wall the front and get a Viking out the Medivac will just speed boost past it only taking a few shots. The general idea is to drop 2 hellbats in the mineral line and then speed boost while the workers are pulled and drop the other 2 on the worker conga line. The only real counter to it I've seen (and I use that loosely) is putting a siege tank at the mineral line with a bunker there as well. But you'll still lose like 10 SCV in the process. It is absolutely retarded. I watched Bogus vs TY yesterday in a HOTS game and every single match featured Hellbat drops. Often times by both players. The win rate was 100% if the Terran went hellbat drop and the other Terran did not. The biggest joke was how Axlav and Axeltoss were talking about how great TvT is now watching each player micro the hellbat drop and their mineral line at once. It isn't great to watch. It is fucking stupid. The only possible way I could see stopping it outright is to place two widow mines right in the path of the dropping medivac. But that is very luck based and praying the opponent isn't wise to the situation. I thought maybe cloaked banshee was the answer but your cloak banshee will get ~10 kills then slowly die to marines. His hellbats roasted your entire worker line in the process.

It is basically Reaper vs Reaper all over again.

Well, that sounds really retarded.

Widow mine doesn't even oneshot them

And their hitbox is huge so the splash doesn't hit. Don't forget the medivac can heal the Hellbat so you can't even widdle them down with marines. I saw someone put mines in his mineral line to kill the hellbats (4 of them) and they killed the two that dropped on the mineral line. Only issue is mines do friendly splash so he still lost the entire worker line lol.

I think the speed boost on medivacs will be a research very soon, if you hit somebody who is not 100% ready for the drop, you can do too much with too little. You can literally chase mutalisks with thor and medivac... That way if you do it off 1 base, you get like extra minute.

Personally I feel the beta is pretty unbalanced and unpolished from an MP perspective. If this is the product they ship in a month it will make tournaments a joke and will be full of imba abuse. I'm not 100% sure the problem really lies in the medivac boost. At any rate everyone says it is pretty cool from a design perspective. The issue is hellbats just destroy worker lines too well at the moment. I'm not sure if I know a great solution since Blizzard wants Hellbats to be a reasonable answer to mass ling/mass zealot in a bio-centric Terran army. I'm wondering if maybe making the Hellbat upgrade be a quick and cheap upgrade at the factory's tech lab would solve some issues with the current rushes. The rush really revolves around reactoring out hellions and having your armory & medivac finish in unison to perform the drop. If you can make it so they could only have 2 hellbats instead of 4 that would greatly weaken the rush.

Not to mention most people don't even use the Hellbat in bio centric armies TvP since they're just too clunky. They're good but just very awkward to work with.

Slowly climbing out of Bronze league using the Bronze to Masters guide on youtube. Fuck MMR. I don't want evenly balanced games. I want to win in a landslide and progress. It's annoying having to grind out each league while playing against silver and gold league players.

Worthless beta update


I'm not 100% sure what the widow mine damage change will do. I figured when I heard DKim's original post is the widow mine would do shield damage in it's AOE. Is the -35 shields applied before the actual payload? I'd almost have to assume so. AFAIK the only Toss units with more than 100 shields are the Colo and Carrier.

Spore crawler change is worthless as well. Right now in HOTS ZvZ is effectively muta flock vs muta flock. What do flocks of mutas do? Yeah they kill turrets in the blink of an eye. Sure this buff is outstanding to ward off maybe 6 mutas but once they reach a critical number the 15+15 may as well not exist.

It's buff against busting the mech terran at the only time it's possible if you don't want to get dragged into 30 minute long game, because now it oneshots stalkers and zealots.

Mutalisks are straight up bullshit, it's a unit with second highest speed in the game, that regenerates to full in a blink of an eye, so unless the zerg fucks up royally, the only way to really punish them besides baseracing is to have 5-6 phoenixes ready when they come out. I have no idea why the have the regen, if anything, they should have significantly smaller regen than other zerg units, due to intense metabolism required to fly (lore lol). Then you have units that you have to support with queens back at your base and even flock of 30 mutas gets weaker if they were harassing over time and taken some damage, thus removing the stupidity of a stack of 40 mutas 2shotting nexuses. Even if I get storm, the fucker just flies away and comes back 30 seconds later like nothing happened.

All the harass units are very bullshit right now. Oracle is almost as bad as Mutas and Hellbats, it kills combat shield-less Marines in two hits so you can beat like 6 Marines with 1 Oracle. The high DPS also lets you easily destroy any kind of early game attack using Zealots to tank for them. If Terran wants to expand, they have to get like a 6 minute Engineering Bay and two turrets in each mineral line to not just outright lose to Oracles, because Marines just do NOT cut it. They're also the best possible answer to Hellbat drops, Hellbats are light so they get slaughtered.

The new TvP builds generally call for an early engi bay. Simply because DTs are a more viable threat as early game harassment without going all-in. I know SuperNova's build is to basically open standard, get 1 reaper, 2 more raxes, tech lab -> stim, engi bay -> +1. Marines also can reach critical numbers where they can easily defeat Oracles. In small-scale battles they get decimated but once you have 6+ (I believe the number is 5 un upgraded marines beat 1 Oracle and maybe 8 beats 2) the threat subsides.

Like Zap was saying mutas are more bullshit. It used to be if they wanted to do damage you had to put very costly, very fragile units in harm's way. Now they can run in, pick off a turret, run away. Leave the wounded one out of the ctrl group for a bit, pick off another turret and repeat. They basically perform free damage and unless you outright kill them they come back in half a minute at full health. It is the most retarded thing in the world.

Xequecal_sl said:

All the harass units are very bullshit right now. Oracle is almost as bad as Mutas and Hellbats, it kills combat shield-less Marines in two hits so you can beat like 6 Marines with 1 Oracle. The high DPS also lets you easily destroy any kind of early game attack using Zealots to tank for them. If Terran wants to expand, they have to get like a 6 minute Engineering Bay and two turrets in each mineral line to not just outright lose to Oracles, because Marines just do NOT cut it. They're also the best possible answer to Hellbat drops, Hellbats are light so they get slaughtered.

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I'd say that if you want the game to be more interesting, harass units need to be bullshit and OP. Seriously, we aren't even approaching the power of reaver/storm drops, mine drags, old muta harass, lurker drops ... It's easy to yell "nerf!", but people need to figure out how to deal with it. This is probably the only period where they can do it "safely" without endangering the proscene.

Zaphid_sl said:

I'd say that if you want the game to be more interesting, harass units need to be bullshit and OP. Seriously, we aren't even approaching the power of reaver/storm drops, mine drags, old muta harass, lurker drops ... It's easy to yell "nerf!", but people need to figure out how to deal with it. This is probably the only period where they can do it "safely" without endangering the proscene.

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Half the power of econ harass in BW was because even if you killed nothing, the opponent still had to spend a billion APM cloning all his workers back on to seperate mineral patches. We don't have that in SC2.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=2

Daisuki caught hacking. Goodbye personal sponsorship, goodbye meal ticket for playing video games.

That makes me wonder how many pros can hack in online cups ...