StarCraft 2
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Mures
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Kinda confused by this statement, but if you're saying you don't see where to switch regions I believe you have to uncheck "remember this account" and restart sc2.
Give me a break the talent level of that tournament was a joke.Sooo... is Snute still a patchzerg?
Khaldor seems to have gotten worse as a caster. It is pretty obvious he isn't keeping up with HOTS because he just says some retarded things.
Also he is so incredibly biased and obviously hates medivac boost
Also he is so incredibly biased and obviously hates medivac boost
Zaphid
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What do you make of the big announcement that is most definitely going to leak before next Wednesday ? I think it's pretty obvious Korea can't sustain 2 team leagues, though I kinda hoped there would be 2 individual leagues. Worst case scenario is Kespa drops SC2 altogether and we would be pretty much fucked, so that is something Blizzard will obviously try to prevent.
Quineloe
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Was it just me or were some of the games actually lagging in that tournament? Sometimes the game froze, but it probably wasn't stream lag because I could still see the observer mouse move or they did something else.
That starcraft 2 for tournaments with LAN function is real, right?
Zaphid
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IIRC they actually made observers not lag the players in HotS, so it probably didn't affect the games. But the observers were definitely lagging
From everything I've read Blizzard is trying to marry GOM and KeSPA together in Korea. I think they see the two battling as a lose/lose situation for all parties involved. So I wouldn't be shocked if GOM takes over the individual league and KeSPA takes over the team league. It really plays to both organization's strengths. Hopefully Blizzard starts throwing their wallet around to promote SC2. It is a much, much better game to observe than any MOBA yet pulls in worse numbers.
Oh yeah did anyone watch the latest SOTG? Did anyone else find Catz' laundry list of excuses for why foreigners suck absolutely hilarious? It is a fucking video game where the more you play the better you get. Yet he is going on and on about cultural differences and shit so foreigners can't be good. I was dying laughing. NA "pros" don't have jobs their only job is to play god damn video game yet none of them do it well. It isn't culture it is laziness.
I didn't hear what he said, but of course there are cultural differences that factor into it. You can't tell me with a straight face that the only reason the rest of the world outside of Korea is nowhere close to Koreans is because they don't practice enough. South Korea has less than 1% of the world's population, yet has probably 45 of the top 50 players in the world. Are you going to tell me a European should have no problem making an NFL team as long as he practices and plays enough with his peers? They could have all the talent in the world, but the support, coaching, and pop-warner/high school/college progression system are not established like they are in the U.S.. Foreigners won't be as good as Koreans until their support systems are on par with Korean teams. Why else would some of the top foreigners go to Korea to train? They can play and practice just as many games from their own house.
Fact is competitive gaming still has a fairly negative stigma attached to it outside of Korea, and until that changes, the rest of the world will lag behind.
Fact is competitive gaming still has a fairly negative stigma attached to it outside of Korea, and until that changes, the rest of the world will lag behind.
Just head over to TL pro and look at TLO's training schedule. He is actively playing SC2 like 5-6 hours a day. That is probably more than 90% of other foreigner pros. Most of that time is spent just playing the ladder. Which may be good for improving mechanics and possibly scouting but simply cannot replicate being in a pro house with a dedicated coach and a daily schedule. The path laid before them is pretty clear: copy Kespa. But none copy kespa. Only the true dedicated pros go to Korea and for the most part they just go there and be ladder pros for a while. It wouldn't shock me if in 6-12mo Major is the undisputed best foreigner simply because he is living in that Kespa environment daily (the only foreigner to really embrace that in the SC2 scene.) Don't give me this "stigma" stuff when these people are already getting paid money to play a video game and don't have another job. If there is a stigma (I'd say yes there is) they have already overcome it.
It is painfully obvious the "hands off" non-managed approach is not working. KeSPA only just recently switched over to SC2 and already they have a GSL champion. They just absolutely fuckrape EG-TL anytime a proleague occurs and all the people on EG-TL have been full-time SC2 pros since the damn game came out. Look at the "EG Lair" as a pro-house. They have no coach and no schedule. You can do whatever you want, play as much as you want or as little as you want. They're all terrible at that place with zero results to show for themselves. It isn't a stigma or cultural thing it is a management thing.
I watch DeMuslim's stream a ton. He constantly talks about how you don't need to be in Korea in a pro house there to be come the best. He is delusional to think he actually is one of the best Terrans in the world. What facts are there that back up any of his claims? The fact that a foreigner always gets promptly kicked out of GSL? The fact that Koreans always win every tournament always? I'm sure every single lazy foreigner believes it as well. They think they can be the best with the situation they're ineven though there is no proof to back it up.
It is painfully obvious the "hands off" non-managed approach is not working. KeSPA only just recently switched over to SC2 and already they have a GSL champion. They just absolutely fuckrape EG-TL anytime a proleague occurs and all the people on EG-TL have been full-time SC2 pros since the damn game came out. Look at the "EG Lair" as a pro-house. They have no coach and no schedule. You can do whatever you want, play as much as you want or as little as you want. They're all terrible at that place with zero results to show for themselves. It isn't a stigma or cultural thing it is a management thing.
I watch DeMuslim's stream a ton. He constantly talks about how you don't need to be in Korea in a pro house there to be come the best. He is delusional to think he actually is one of the best Terrans in the world. What facts are there that back up any of his claims? The fact that a foreigner always gets promptly kicked out of GSL? The fact that Koreans always win every tournament always? I'm sure every single lazy foreigner believes it as well. They think they can be the best with the situation they're ineven though there is no proof to back it up.
Zaphid
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Well, all the talk about our pros not being good enough, but I have yet to hear some of the contenders (not Catz, who is peruan Incontrol) talk about wanting to practice harder and their teams not letting them. Stephano sounded really unhappy with his time in Korea. If I had to play 10 hours a day, I'd quit in a heartbeat, I could make comparable living rather easily and I'd have time for hobbies n shit. If you are good enough to play at the top level, you are smart enough for college. If you ever read about korean education, no wonder they turn to gaming, grinding games 12 hours a day is cakewalk compared to the high school there. Copying Kespa isn't a magical solution, you also need those people to be desperate enough.
Exactly. Yes, it boils down to them not practicing as much as the Koreans, but that's because of the support and culture. Players aren't going to practice for 12 hours a day every day unless they're being pushed and managed by a hands on coach and teammates who are physically there. The Korean team house doesn't exist anywhere outside of Korea, and until it does, you won't see foreigners catch up. There are probably a handful of players outside Korea who are able to stay as focused and motivated, by themselves, as a Korean team house would promote.
I would say that's absolutely a cultural difference.
Stephano basically said Trot was a terrible coach. Which was one of the leading factors to him getting fired and Park hired. I'm not saying I'd want to grind for 10 hours a day either but I also think being a pro gamer would be a pretty terrible job. Right now most foreigner "pro gamers" see their team's checks as free money for just logging in and laddering here and there. I'm not saying everyone recognizes pro gaming as being a poor career choice but with the rumors of Life getting a personal sponsorship by Red Bull for 200k the money is there if you really want it.
But even when it is offered often times foreigners don't take it. They go to Korea for like 3 months and then leave. Foreigners simply don't have the work ethic to compete with the Koreans. Ret left Korea because he couldn't take KeSPA. Nony left Korea because he couldn't take KeSPA. The second Idra got off a KeSPA team you saw his skills rapidly decline. We'll see how long Major sticks around in Korea. Even if there aren't many pro houses in the NA/EU scene they are available in Korea. Most foreigner teams could easily strike a deal with a Korean team if they really wanted to get their players into that type of environment.
Zaphid
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Idra still got demolished by Nony in TSL 2 after Nony practiced for like 2 weeks despite being on Kespa. Nony left to get married I think.
Have you ever lived in a foreign country where you basically depend on locals speaking English ? I spent a month in Turkey over the summer and the reason it was great was because there was a bunch of other people from all over the world, however if I had to spend that time essentially alone, I'd be probably contemplating suicide by week 2. You simplify a lot by saying shipping yourself to korea is all that's needed for you to magically get better.
I haven't but I'm also not getting paid to play Starcraft or be the best at it. If the foreigners want to just admit that they'll never be the best at the game then that's that. But I highly doubt there will be a huge craving to see sub-par SC2 as Catz suggested by having NA only leagues. I may be in the minority but I only care about what I'm seeing on stream I don't care too much about who is behind the keys. I want to see the best games and it just so happens those all come from Koreans. Seeing an "interesting" foreigner vs foreigner game basically comes down to both of them fucking up left and right and that leading to an interesting scenario.
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I don't follow the LoL scene at all is that place also Korean dominated or does the game have a low enough ceiling where that doesn't matter all too much who practiced 10 hours vs 6 hours?
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I don't follow the LoL scene at all is that place also Korean dominated or does the game have a low enough ceiling where that doesn't matter all too much who practiced 10 hours vs 6 hours?
Zaphid
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Korean dominated IIRC, but Riot stepped in with their championship being split by region with big final at the end, so it's not too obvious.
I'd watch the shit out of EU league if it was at my time, like most Dota 2 tourneys ATM. People like Grubby, Nerchio, Lucifron, TLO, Ret and Snute make for good stories, especially if it was casted by Apollo. I'd also be able to learn a thing or 2, because watching Hero's stream it's basically "well, I won't win unless I micro all of these thingsperfectly" Then he proceeds to do just that. Very stylish, but if I tried that I would lose instantly.
I'd watch the shit out of EU league if it was at my time, like most Dota 2 tourneys ATM. People like Grubby, Nerchio, Lucifron, TLO, Ret and Snute make for good stories, especially if it was casted by Apollo. I'd also be able to learn a thing or 2, because watching Hero's stream it's basically "well, I won't win unless I micro all of these thingsperfectly" Then he proceeds to do just that. Very stylish, but if I tried that I would lose instantly.
How long could you stand being in a foreign country where no one speaks your language and you never see your friends and family? The team houses are culturally accepted and embraced in Korea. Again, until that same structure makes it to the U.S/Europe and becomes embraced then the gap won't close regardless of practice and dedication to the game. Life is 16 years old. Flash dropped out of school and started playing full time at like 14. Dropping out of school to play a video game is not going to fly in most Western or European homes.
What leads you to think pro gaming is seen as such an accepted job? Every interview I ever read is the person basically saying their parents don't approve of their decision and only start to approve after they win a ton of money in a tournament. I think this myth that Korean parents are so excited when their kid goes full time gaming is completely false.