Starfield - Fallout fallout that isn't ES6

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Cybsled

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Big Phoenix said:
And just like FO4, the base building mechanic was absolutely pointless, nothing more than a time sink for the ADD types.
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At least with Fallout 4, you could be a lot more creative. The settlement mechanic in Starfield is extremely limiting since all you can really make is just preformed Habs and then plop furniture inside them

Couple bases I made in Fo4 without mods

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Sylas

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well i'm about 60 hours in according to steam, and it seems like im 2% complete lol.

I was promised skyrim in space and that's exactly what this game is. just like in skyrim if you don't go to whiterun to talk to jarl the main quest and all the dragonborn shit just sorta doesn't start and you get to go around and actually play the game without being hounded about dragons? that's how i'm dealing with constellation and whatever this games thing is supposed to be? interdimensional space wizards? or whatever idk i haven't bothered starting it.

really enjoying the surveying, exploring, spaceship building etc, though i do have a few complaints.

the whole "we're explorers, boldly going where no man has gone before" Yeah so that was a lie. i know its all procedurally generated planets and moons and shit but I've yet to touch down anywhere, no matter how inhospitable and violent the surface is, where i didn't see structures/outposts/mining operations/etc already built there. One of the biggest complaints from youtube videos is about how empty the planets feel and its literally the exact fucking opposite. It feels like there's no virgin soil anywhere in the universe. Everything feels like its been explored and colonized already. And no matter where the fuck I land, no matter how remote and desolate the location is, there's always a random motherfucker landing his ship 500 feet away, every fucking time? It's always different, maybe its pirates or smugglers or traders or UC or whatever, but it makes the galaxy feel like everywhere you go is a fucking truckstop on a highway.

Spaceship building and unique parts. This is frustrating as fuck. I feel like once you've visited a manufacturer's show room and seen all their unique pieces, those pieces should unlock and become available for you to purchase at your outpost. But no, if i want this or that unique piece I have to travel there. The fact that you can't save a partial build of a ship makes this infuriating. I can't save a build unless it is a functional ship with all the required pieces, but I can't finish the build until I have all the unique pieces I want installed on the ship. Like dude i'm not going to get in and fly this ship until i'm done building it, let me just save my progress while I hunt down parts. if everything was identically modular and fit with everything else and it was just different styles then it would be fine, you could install throwaway placeholder pieces while you peruse the galaxy tracking down all the pieces you want. But they aren't. many of these unique pieces you want are because they are unique, a new & different lego block, that connects differently or allows a different configuration/attachment that you can't replicate until you get that unique piece.
 
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Void

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Don't forget that any pieces you use to make your Frankenstein ship flyable are sold back at a HUGE deficit when you actually put the correct pieces on. I never paid attention but I wouldn't be surprised if it were something like a 90% loss. That's why I used the mod/console command that puts every part on a vendor of your choice. Fuck that flying around with a half built ship bullshit. Not to mention you have to start with an existing ship.

Next part isn't for Sylas or anyone in particular, just a bit of a rant for a game that I have played the shit out of and still love, but it kills me how much better it could have been. And might still be one day.

I finally went to NG+ a couple of days ago, and I'm glad I played most of the game through on that run, but I also hate that everything I did in terms of looting, building, etc. is just gone. I get the premise, but it is still disappointing. I would have preferred some mechanism that let you bring all your shit with you somehow. Now I'm just going to slowly work my way through to NG+10, and already I've realized there is absolutely no point in doing anything for these next runs except looting a few pieces of gear/guns/ammo, just enough to let me kill some random enemies that get in my way finding artifacts, and of course the guys at the end (or just fucking Persuade them, how dumb is that?). I used to pick over every fucking room and container and loot the shit out of it all. Now? Who cares, just going to be deleted in a day or two. Only when I've done it 10 times total will I ever loot anything that isn't completely essential again.

Oh, and don't get me started on running the fucking temples 240 times. Particularly the ones where you do one, go back to Vladimir, back to a planet, run for 5 fucking minutes, float through the sparklies an arbitrary number of times, kill a dude, then fast travel back to Vladimir to do it all over again. It is like a minimum of 10 minutes per temple if that's all you do. 2400 minutes, that's a full 40 hour work week of JUST doing that. Did they actually play their fucking game? Yeah, console commands here I come. I'll collect artifacts and happily type a command into the console and call it good enough.
 
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Sylas

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yo what is the console command to put every part on a vendor? for science
 
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RobXIII

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Concur with the above. I'm like most, where I wanted to playthrough a full time again with max armor/ship, but the thought of doing that gaming loop for that many hours? Newp.

That said I got plenty of hours out of my purchase, though I didn't touch a few of the game mechanics (base building, and ship building aside from main quest needs)
 
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popsicledeath

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Favorite new bug is my new ship build my bay spawns me into the middle of a table that is too close and traps me inside it half the time.
 
Zefah

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Sylas said:
I was promised skyrim in space and that's exactly what this game is.
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I guess if what you liked about Skyrim was the janky and bad parts and didn't really care for what made it special, like the whole aspect of exploring a massive open world with hand-crafted content to discover.
 
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Derkon

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Zefah said:
I guess if what you liked about Skyrim was the janky and bad parts and didn't really care for what made it special, like the whole aspect of exploring a massive open world with hand-crafted content to discover.
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Yeah agreed. I played Skyrim last year with the AE update and the level of immersion, world building and atmosphere just isn't there in Starfield. Dungeons are laughably worse in comparison as well, and Skyrim isn't even the best in that regard. Not to mention the intro mission to Starfield is shockingly bad, like I'm legit surprised Todd Howard signed off on it; just play Skyrim's intro again for comparison sake.

Skyrim ain't perfect, and I don't exactly hate Starfield but it's not even in the same ballpark.
 
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Sylas

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talk about retarded takes.

Holy shit a futuristic space shooter has different content than medieval fantasy? oh noes, no dungeons in my space sim? just the occasional cave and it doesnt even have traps? say it ain't so.

It's the same fucking engine with the same fucking UI and the same fucking graphics utilizing the same mechanics with the exact same laughable design bugs (lets put merchants inventory in chests hidden under the geometry, nobody would expect us to pull the same shit again). I've seen like 13 NPCs wondering around new Atlantis who look exactly like Balgruuf the Greater from Skyrim. same fucking face.

It's got the same radiant quests and the same story outline and basic gameplay loop. You're a shmuck who turns out to be the dragonborn Starborn who has to go around and collect abilities from wordwalls space temples, press Z to dragonshout spacemagic. There's 4 or 5 major guild faction questlines you can follow and eventually became head honcho/hot shit of each faction, innkeepers and random NPCs casually drop rumors/breadcrumbs for random side quests, every god damn thing is lootable and you'll end up way over-encumbered if you try and loot everything. You end up spending most of your play time picking out the best curtains for your homestead spaceship.

Sure the writing is slightly worse in parts thanks to diversity hires and there's way more woke pronoun faggotry cus 2023 but it's the same fucking game you retards. Before it launched speculation on what this game was going to be ran from freelancer to no man's sky to star citizen. turns out no it isn't a space sim, it's fucking Skyrim in space.
 
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krismunich

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Sylas said:
talk about retarded takes.

Holy shit a futuristic space shooter has different content than medieval fantasy? [..rant shortened] it's fucking in Skyrim in space.
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Well I think that is the most valid and reasonable complaint, no? What took 8 years, 500 people, 100 mill USD "16 times the details" and whatnot to produce a glorified SF DLC for Skyrim with a bit higher texture resolution? Some swedish 10 people mod team could have done that in 2 years for a sixpack and a pat on the back.
 
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rhinohelix

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It's Skyrim but different, with different worlds rather than one continuous world and a bunch of different environments and conditions and low gravity and creatures and if a team in Sweden could make it two years, they would have done so already.

The game is fun but has tons of issues and is nowhere near the hype marker people put on it at the beginning. It's also not Cyberpunk 2077 levels of bad but that's because Skyrim/FO4 and BGS didn't have the expectations around it coming from the Witcher 3 that CDPR did.

I absolutely hate the MSQ of Starfield narratively. It makes every expansion a dead end. Multiverses are a story-telling plague of our time, and I can't wait for them to die in a fad fire tasting their own blood. The only thing worse is time travel, which is functionally equivalent and just as narrative-killing as multiverses or wishes.

The Skills are unfinished/unpolished/uneven, the outposts mostly meaningless once you get to a certain point, the shipbuilding is great but due to the skill requirements janky as fuck. What Silas mentioned about the planet exploration is true; every planet has already been explored.

I hate that the fastest way to level is go murder hobo your way around on high level planets killing animals, which may or may not be aggressive; Actually, the fastest way to level is to build animal pens with Zoology and killed Domesticated versions of high level animals; holy fuck does that suck.
"How did you become an expert at Starship Design?"
"Well I murdered thousands of domesticated Brain spiders at a farm on Levitucus 3, and then I built and sold a million adaptive struts from my outpost there, and then I went to Neon and put different parts on a dummy ship until I could build a Battleship"
Oof.

The many of the quests are good, I am still working through the companion quests, the Faction quests are fun, so many of the random quests in the world(s) are good, activities log is good, the moment to moment gameplay is good.

I thought there would be more buildings pieced together procedurally, the planets are neat but underwhelming, or at least not spectacular.

Space combat is ok not great. As I level up I have had a couple of close calls, even with an upgraded Starship design 4 ship funded by lots of pirate weapons.

I am going to build my first outpost today and probably begin my last week playing full time and will start adding mods to see how much juice I can get out with the squeeze.
 
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Burns

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rhinohelix said:
I hate that the fastest way to level is go murder hobo your way around on high level planets killing animals, which may or may not be aggressive; Actually, the fastest way to level is to build animal pens with Zoology and killed Domesticated versions of high level animals; holy fuck does that suck.
"How did you become an expert at Starship Design?"
"Well I murdered thousands of domesticated Brain spiders at a farm on Levitucus 3, and then I built and sold a million adaptive struts from my outpost there, and then I went to Neon and put different parts on a dummy ship until I could build a Battleship"
Oof.
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Meh, why go through all that bullshit just to grind levels. The fastest way to get levels is player.setlevel [#]. Leveling in this game is terrible, you still have to do the checklist shit so you can upgrade the skill.
 
rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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Burns said:
Meh, why go through all that bullshit just to grind levels. The fastest way to get levels is player.setlevel [#]. Leveling in this game is terrible, you still have to do the checklist shit so you can upgrade the skill.
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That's a good point. I haven't done any console commands except to try to redo the character creation to reset the Traits after playing for 7-8 levels; I didn't want to start over. I didn't get any of the traits I wanted, it just killed the one I had already picked /shrug.

One of the main complaints about Skills I left off of my other post, other than how half assed and unbalanced the Skill tree is, is that despite spending most of my time fighting, I haven't invested a single point in any combat skills. Why? Because I haven't needed to. The game in which I spent most of my time shooting people in the face I have spent 0, ZERO, Nada skill points in these skills. There should be Twice as many skill points and requirements on weapons, just like there are requirements on crafting and Starship modules.

I still think Skyrim's skill tree far outweighs this one, although I get they are trying to lock progression behind levels and skill points to force choices. You should get skill points and XP for doing the things you have skills in. It works that way a little but you will never level picking locks and barely ever shooting pirates.
In the end, though, you're forcing players to grind activities they don't want to do in order to do the things they really want to do. No one wants to hunt brain cage giraffes or Apex lurkers in order to get XP so they can get skill points to level their Chemistry (after doing whatever intra skill challenge requirement is necessary). Chemistry and Gastromancy suck, by the way. Why even include these skills if you were going to make them almost worthless? So many skills are just there to fill out the tree and act as traps for players who expect them to work.

While I still am/have enjoyed my time with the game, I would have thought the game would not have these design issues, the inventory issue, the UX issues that it has with the extra 10 months. I don't remember Skyrim or Morrowind (I barely remember Oblivion at all, even though I played it through and beat it). being this bad from a UX perspective. Rose colored glasses and all that.
 
Break

Break

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I just don't like Bethesda's writing style found in most of their games, virtually all the dialogue has this unrealistic, sterilized, plastic quality that lacks genuine emotion.
 
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Burns

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rhinohelix said:
That's a good point. I haven't done any console commands except to try to redo the character creation to reset the Traits after playing for 7-8 levels; I didn't want to start over. I didn't get any of the traits I wanted, it just killed the one I had already picked /shrug.

One of the main complaints about Skills I left off of my other post, other than how half assed and unbalanced the Skill tree is, is that despite spending most of my time fighting, I haven't invested a single point in any combat skills. Why? Because I haven't needed to. The game in which I spent most of my time shooting people in the face I have spent 0, ZERO, Nada skill points in these skills. There should be Twice as many skill points and requirements on weapons, just like there are requirements on crafting and Starship modules.

I still think Skyrim's skill tree far outweighs this one, although I get they are trying to lock progression behind levels and skill points to force choices. You should get skill points and XP for doing the things you have skills in. It works that way a little but you will never level picking locks and barely ever shooting pirates.
In the end, though, you're forcing players to grind activities they don't want to do in order to do the things they really want to do. No one wants to hunt brain cage giraffes or Apex lurkers in order to get XP so they can get skill points to level their Chemistry (after doing whatever intra skill challenge requirement is necessary). Chemistry and Gastromancy suck, by the way. Why even include these skills if you were going to make them almost worthless? So many skills are just there to fill out the tree and act as traps for players who expect them to work.

While I still am/have enjoyed my time with the game, I would have thought the game would not have these design issues, the inventory issue, the UX issues that it has with the extra 10 months. I don't remember Skyrim or Morrowind (I barely remember Oblivion at all, even though I played it through and beat it). being this bad from a UX perspective. Rose colored glasses and all that.
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Same experience with Combat. My plan was to only use console commands to get skill points for non-combat skills, which I did...because I never needed any combat skills, even at level 50 something, on the hardest setting. Although I did get swarmed to death a few times on the early pirate Ice moon mission, which was one of the last ones I completed before I quit.

As for inventory, I am hard pressed to remember much of anything about vanilla Skyrim, since I only played it once w/o mods, but I think inventory was trash there too. Mods also fixed it in short order. Even going back and playing Morrowind was with mods, but I vaguely remember being quite annoyed at the inventory in FO4. I've always written off UI issues as part of the continual console dumbing down that was to be expected in a Bethesda game.
 
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Cybsled

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That is one issue I have with the skill system: It's wide but really shallow. It also forces you to invest too much in "low value" skills. Want to make a base on Pluto? Sorry, you gotta heavy invest in the science skill tree in a bunch of different skills first.

Another annoying thing is the limited storage + the gating with crafting. Some materials are only useful if you skill up spacesuits or weapon design for example, but you get bottlenecked by leveling and can't unload the stuff you need to skill up the next tier until then.
 
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rhinohelix

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Burns said:
Same experience with Combat. My plan was to only use console commands to get skill points for non-combat skills, which I did...because I never needed any combat skills, even at level 50 something, on the hardest setting. Although I did get swarmed to death a few times on the early pirate Ice moon mission, which was one of the last ones I completed before I quit.

As for inventory, I am hard pressed to remember much of anything about vanilla Skyrim, since I only played it once w/o mods, but I think inventory was trash there too. Mods also fixed it in short order. Even going back and playing Morrowind was with mods, but I vaguely remember being quite annoyed at the inventory in FO4. I've always written off UI issues as part of the continual console dumbing down that was to be expected in a Bethesda game.
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The only time I have died outside space combat at level 4 when level 14 bounty hunters showed up as part of the Wanted trait (hence my wanting to redo traits, I wasn't ready to do space combat and was getting those missions every 5-10 jumps) was recently on a quest on a level 55 planet "Project Starseed" and one of the mobs was level 85 on Hard. I didn't take it seriously and it one-hit me. I was shocked, I had never seen the rag-doll before. When I reloaded I handled him like a champ ("GET BACK" MacReady shouted "Don't let it touch you!") but it was a lesson in how deadly some things can be.

I have seen a number of mods make the game amazing better in videos. BGS needs to worry less about ratio of gay to hetero relationships and how many girl bosses they have and worry more about improving the base UI/UX, when modders do it so easy in the first few weeks. I mean, there is community involvement but damn.

The Skill tree fuckup is inexcuseable. CP2077 skill tree was far better than this at launch and it wasn't very good. Also, as others have said, having Master level safes give almost nothing, while it doesn't bother me too much because I am there for skills for kills and pirate loot, is understandably a huge "FEELS BAD" moment. It needs to give something worth the time.

There is a guy on Youtube who has gone through and tested/rated all of the skills/trees; so many of them are bad the whole system needs a rework for the expansion.
 
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