Starfield - Fallout fallout that isn't ES6

Void · Oct 9, 2023

Some of the universes are even blatantly geared towards you wanting to get out of them as quickly as possible. The one where kids are roleplaying, the one with all different versions of you, the one with just Vasco, the one with just Walter and no save/no inventory, and I'm sure others. Except for a tiny number or weirdos, no one is going to want to stay in those universes longer than it takes to finish the quest again, but just having them as options clearly means it was supposed to be a valid play experience. Dumb, but obviously someone intended it.

rhinohelix · Oct 9, 2023

Sylas said:
while I see there is division amongst the players on NG+ I really just do not understand why you guys feel this way at all?

I'm going to compare it to skyrim. So you play the game. you put in 100, 200 hours or whatever and you finished it. you've done everything you can do. You've got all the houses and everything decorated just how you like it. There's nothing else left for you to do in this game.

So you either put the game down and play something else for a while, or maybe you got the itch to play again right away, but either way you wanna play more and see how things would of turned out differently if you had made different choices.

So you start a brand new game at level 1 and redo everything, including all the shitty parts of the game leveling up blacksmithing to 100 again banging out 10k iron daggers and chasing down fucking 500 fucking wolves for leather scraps.

Despite putting 100/200+ hours into the game, spending untold hours perfecting your house decorations from your previous save, none of that shit exists for this save. none of the loot, none of the gold, none of your choices, nothing. nothing fucking exists its a brand new game with a brand new character. And don't for one fucking second sit there and tell me "oh but I can always load up that previous save and admire my work and keep playing if i wanted to" the fuck you do. Not a fucking soul on earth ever actually loads up a previous character save who has finished the game to actually "play" again. doing what radiant quests over and over? fuck no. You maybe load up for 10seconds for sentimentality or whatever just to sit there in their house but you do that once then you will never load up that save again fucking ever, so stop fucking lying.

How the fuck is this really different than NG+ in starfield? Other than in starfield I get to skip the going back to being weak af level 1, instead i get to keep all my power and skills. and i get completely different dialogue options to short cut a few things the next time around if I so chose, I get some random game states on occassion which can completely change things up, etc.

You're thinking about the game. Think instead about what it does to the world. Forget about creating bases or relationships or building status with factions for anything for future content, it kills your character in THAT UNIVERSE FOREVER. YOU'RE DEAD. In fact, from your perspective, IT KILLS THAT UNIVERSE. The Story/Narrative is also dead; Nothing can ever progress beyond the Unity. The narrative of Starfield effectively dies with this game. There might be DLC but every time you enter the Unity you reset the Universe so nothing can progress. You are always going to be a miner on Mars. Freestar and UC are always going to be at odds, etc. UNTIL STARFIELD 2 and they UNFUCK THIS MECHANIC, ITS A STATIC MULTI/UNIVERSE. When you restarted in Skyrim, you kept the illusion that you were entering a story fresh and the world was progressing; in Starfield, that illusion is shattered. You might as well be Time Traveling back to where you started; its the same thing in effect with a different metaphysical explanation. The world.is.broken.

If they don't change the narrative, It's dead for all time. In this game, other Starborn have done this hundreds or thousands of times. The same choices, the same history, with variations as Void indicated.

EDIT: The Unity would be the same if Your Doppleganger told you it reset the Universe to where you first found the Artifact but you retained all your knowledge, power and skill. Or Time Traveled. Or Hammer Timed; It doesn't fucking matter. It's a Giant Reset Button and a Terrible Idea from a Story perspective, a bell that can't be unrung.

It's a Marvel What If where the Universe died but you get to play again.

Void · Oct 9, 2023

Sylas said:
while I see there is division amongst the players on NG+ I really just do not understand why you guys feel this way at all?

I'm going to compare it to skyrim. So you play the game. you put in 100, 200 hours or whatever and you finished it. you've done everything you can do. You've got all the houses and everything decorated just how you like it. There's nothing else left for you to do in this game.

So you either put the game down and play something else for a while, or maybe you got the itch to play again right away, but either way you wanna play more and see how things would of turned out differently if you had made different choices.

So you start a brand new game at level 1 and redo everything, including all the shitty parts of the game leveling up blacksmithing to 100 again banging out 10k iron daggers and chasing down fucking 500 fucking wolves for leather scraps.

Despite putting 100/200+ hours into the game, spending untold hours perfecting your house decorations from your previous save, none of that shit exists for this save. none of the loot, none of the gold, none of your choices, nothing. nothing fucking exists its a brand new game with a brand new character. And don't for one fucking second sit there and tell me "oh but I can always load up that previous save and admire my work and keep playing if i wanted to" the fuck you do. Not a fucking soul on earth ever actually loads up a previous character save who has finished the game to actually "play" again. doing what radiant quests over and over? fuck no. You maybe load up for 10seconds for sentimentality or whatever just to sit there in their house but you do that once then you will never load up that save again fucking ever, so stop fucking lying.

How the fuck is this really different than NG+ in starfield? Other than in starfield I get to skip the going back to being weak af level 1, instead i get to keep all my power and skills. and i get completely different dialogue options to short cut a few things the next time around if I so chose, I get some random game states on occassion which can completely change things up, etc.

I can't speak for everyone, but part of my problem is because they aren't done with the fucking game yet. There is DLC coming out, tons of mods still to be created once the tools are released, etc. The very nature of the game works against any of those "adding to your experience" and instead promote an attitude that nothing really matters, everything is a discrete experience totally separate from everything else. You are very likely right that most of us would just put the game down once we were "done" and it would be mostly the same, but the game is actively working to deny even that and make you feel like you kinda wasted your time now that everything is just gone.

That's how I feel about it anyway.

rhinohelix · Oct 9, 2023

Void said:
I can't speak for everyone, but part of my problem is because they aren't done with the fucking game yet. There is DLC coming out, tons of mods still to be created once the tools are released, etc. The very nature of the game works against any of those "adding to your experience" and instead promote an attitude that nothing really matters, everything is a discrete experience totally separate from everything else. You are very likely right that most of us would just put the game down once we were "done" and it would be mostly the same, but the game is actively working to deny even that and make you feel like you kinda wasted your time now that everything is just gone.

That's how I feel about it anyway.

This might have been a good final DLC "Temple of the Creators" or something but to have it be the MSQ of the first game of a new IP is the dumbest thing of which I can think. It's far more stupid than becoming the head of every guild or whatever the narrative belief stretchers were in the Elder Scrolls games. I have already gone on far too long about it but happy for someone to tell me where I have missed something or argue with me about it. I would feel better if I were wrong and there was in-game explanation that I missed that somehow makes this better.

When I was kid we went to West Texas on a school-sponsored science trip and then hiked 5 miles to see a famous waterfall and when we got there the waterfall was dry. There was a reporter from my hometown newspaper and I was quoted in the paper: when we got there I said, "All that way for THIS?"
That's how I feel about Todd Howard's 7 Year Journey of Blue Hair Story Disappointment, also known as Starfield.

DickTrickle · Oct 9, 2023

For clarification, the save/no inventory variant universes are purposely like that so you don't end up getting stuck in a shit universe that breaks stuff up. I think it's amusing flavor but they implement it in an awkward way, of course. People have some found some ways to get weapons/items in these worlds but that's not the intention.

Void · Oct 9, 2023

DickTrickle said:
For clarification, the save/no inventory variant universes are purposely like that so you don't end up getting stuck in a shit universe that breaks stuff up. I think it's amusing flavor but they implement it in an awkward way, of course. People have some found some ways to get weapons/items in these worlds but that's not the intention.

Yeah I see how it could be a challenging scenario, but if you aren't looking for that kind of challenge and don't have a save you want to fall back on, it could be a nightmare for some people to finish so they can progress to a normal universe. Even setting it to Very Easy and abusing stealth/phase time, it could be a slog to get through. Fuck, imagine failing the Persuade check at the end and having to do that fight with your fists. I considered it, but then I realized that in the end it would mean literally nothing beyond saying I did it, since EVERYTHING GETS DELETED as soon as I move on.

Just goes back to my idea that we should be able to voluntarily enter a world like that, but only by choice, and then we return to our original world. Maybe with some special power or perk or item that can only be obtained that way too. Now THAT would be the proper way to implement something like that.

DickTrickle · Oct 9, 2023

Void said:
Yeah I see how it could be a challenging scenario, but if you aren't looking for that kind of challenge and don't have a save you want to fall back on, it could be a nightmare for some people to finish so they can progress to a normal universe. Even setting it to Very Easy and abusing stealth/phase time, it could be a slog to get through. Fuck, imagine failing the Persuade check at the end and having to do that fight with your fists. I considered it, but then I realized that in the end it would mean literally nothing beyond saying I did it, since EVERYTHING GETS DELETED as soon as I move on.

Just goes back to my idea that we should be able to voluntarily enter a world like that, but only by choice, and then we return to our original world. Maybe with some special power or perk or item that can only be obtained that way too. Now THAT would be the proper way to implement something like that.

I don't even know they intend for you to try and complete it, but to die and go back to your last save (which I would think would be just before entering the unity). Either way, not the best continuation implementation.

Blueweed · Oct 10, 2023

Tuco · Oct 10, 2023

I think finding this planet would've extended my playtime by about ten hours.

Cinge · Oct 10, 2023

Tuco said:
I think finding this planet would've extended my playtime by about ten hours.

That 4th picture is crazy. That animal has a chameleon looking tail, a cheetah body, a dragon's wings and the mouth looks like an arachnid's from starship troopers. Not to mention the hind feet looks completely different from the fore feet.

Someone had fun creating that.

Dr.Retarded · Oct 11, 2023

Cinge said:
That 4th picture is crazy. That animal has a chameleon looking tail, a cheetah body, a dragon's wings and the mouth looks like an arachnid's from starship troopers. Not to mention the hind feet looks completely different from the fore feet.

Someone had fun creating that.

Yeah I thought they did a pretty good job with the alien creature designs. I'm still finding weird ones around when I'm exploring.

Janx · Oct 11, 2023

The most weird looking creatures in the game are the humans.

Void · Oct 11, 2023

I think most of us agree that the faction quest lines are far and away some of the best parts of the game. However, I'm pretty disappointed with the lack of any real consequence from the decisions you make in them. Of course it isn't going to be Baldur's Gate level of variety, but I just redid the Crimson Fleet one during one of my NG+ jaunts, and this time I chose CF instead of UC. I expected there to be some repercussions back on Jameson, since, you know, I just helped annihilate a huge fleet. Nope, nobody gives a fuck that I just landed my ship at the spaceport, walked through the scanner, continued my other quest with the UC guy that sent me on the CF one in the first place, etc. I was expecting to have to shoot my way to the Lodge or something. Nope. Not even a bounty, which I've gotten for accidentally hitting a fucking UC ship when trying to help them fight pirates. Blow up their whole fleet though? Nah, no bounty.

The only real downside to selecting the CF seems to be that now I can't do the UC mission board. Boo hoo. I can do the CF missions if I care (I never do any for anyone), and now all the cool people I met during the quest are still alive instead of me feeling vaguely shitty for murdering them if I chose UC. (And I didn't even kill the two UC people you get to know, since I persuaded them to give up.) And now I can go back to the Key whenever I want and put those 2 unique items on any ship I want in the future. Oh, well it could be considered a downside that now all CF ships are friendly, if you really like killing them for some reason. Still plenty of Va'ruun and Ecliptic to kill though.

I get why they didn't make it so that Jameson is completely hostile, because that would require reworking tons and tons of quests if you decided to do the CF one first, basically doubling their workload, but it is a pretty big letdown to see just how little it mattered. Andreja "loved" it when I chose UC, but didn't give any reaction, positive or negative, when I chose CF. I know other companions think differently, but at worst you just dismiss them before making the final jump and now it matters even less. When I finally settle down for my post-NG+10 life, and ever get back around to doing that quest, I see no reason not to choose CF again. Unless someone can remember a benefit I'm forgetting for choosing UC?

sleevedraw · Oct 11, 2023

IMO, Beth's writing for faction quests is usually pretty good (Dark Brotherhood was great in both Skyrim and Oblivion, so is the civil war questline in Skyrim), it's just MSQ writing that they suck at.

Break · Oct 11, 2023

I just can't get into this game. I'm only like 4 hours into the main quest but I find the whole space travel thing ... pretty lame to be honest, and there's a lot of it. The amount of running around this feels more like a Mass Effect clone than FO3/4.

rhinohelix · Oct 11, 2023

Void said:
I think most of us agree that the faction quest lines are far and away some of the best parts of the game. However, I'm pretty disappointed with the lack of any real consequence from the decisions you make in them. Of course it isn't going to be Baldur's Gate level of variety, but I just redid the Crimson Fleet one during one of my NG+ jaunts, and this time I chose CF instead of UC. I expected there to be some repercussions back on Jameson, since, you know, I just helped annihilate a huge fleet. Nope, nobody gives a fuck that I just landed my ship at the spaceport, walked through the scanner, continued my other quest with the UC guy that sent me on the CF one in the first place, etc. I was expecting to have to shoot my way to the Lodge or something. Nope. Not even a bounty, which I've gotten for accidentally hitting a fucking UC ship when trying to help them fight pirates. Blow up their whole fleet though? Nah, no bounty.

The only real downside to selecting the CF seems to be that now I can't do the UC mission board. Boo hoo. I can do the CF missions if I care (I never do any for anyone), and now all the cool people I met during the quest are still alive instead of me feeling vaguely shitty for murdering them if I chose UC. (And I didn't even kill the two UC people you get to know, since I persuaded them to give up.) And now I can go back to the Key whenever I want and put those 2 unique items on any ship I want in the future. Oh, well it could be considered a downside that now all CF ships are friendly, if you really like killing them for some reason. Still plenty of Va'ruun and Ecliptic to kill though.

I get why they didn't make it so that Jameson is completely hostile, because that would require reworking tons and tons of quests if you decided to do the CF one first, basically doubling their workload, but it is a pretty big letdown to see just how little it mattered. Andreja "loved" it when I chose UC, but didn't give any reaction, positive or negative, when I chose CF. I know other companions think differently, but at worst you just dismiss them before making the final jump and now it matters even less. When I finally settle down for my post-NG+10 life, and ever get back around to doing that quest, I see no reason not to choose CF again. Unless someone can remember a benefit I'm forgetting for choosing UC?

Note: I haven't done this quest myself.

I have been told by a RL friend who chose CF that now the UC Sysdef are hostile in random encounters and that's it. Nothing else he noticed in the rest of the game; UC Vanguard is an entirely different faction, No one on Jameson cares, although it would be interesting what Vae Victus says, Your Companions all give you shit in the post-faction talks about it but so what. There are reportedly 5 great merchants in the Key, including one who buys contraband, all within walking distance, no other reported bad effects that I have read.

Seems like barring all RP/morality considerations, CF is the best choice.

Break said:
I just can't get into this game. I'm only like 4 hours into the main quest but I find the whole space travel thing ... pretty lame to be honest, and there's a lot of it. The amount of running around this feels more like a Mass Effect clone than FO3/4.

You're not wrong. ITS BETHESDA SCI-FI IN SPACE Setting. Mass Effect is a far closer analog than Fallout.

Void · Oct 11, 2023

rhinohelix said:
There are reportedly 5 great merchants in the Key, including one who buys contraband, all within walking distance, no other reported bad effects that I have read.

I can't cheat on my boy Marcel though!

That fucking chair outside his shop has seen more play time than some of my NG+ entire run throughs, no lie.

Dr.Retarded · Oct 11, 2023

Void said:
I can't cheat on my boy Marcel though!

That fucking chair outside his shop has seen more play time than some of my NG+ entire run throughs, no lie.

Is that the polite guy in the den who works for the trade authority? I think you're talking about the chairs that are right outside of the shop so you can sit and wait and reset his credits?

Void · Oct 11, 2023

Dr.Retarded said:
Is that the polite guy in the den who works for the trade authority? I think you're talking about the chairs that are right outside of the shop so you can sit and wait and reset his credits?

Exactly!

Sometimes that overtalkative wannabe reporter is taking one of the chairs though.

Dr.Retarded · Oct 11, 2023

Void said:
Exactly!

Sometimes that overtalkative wannabe reporter is taking one of the chairs though.

That's pretty funny. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed he was only polite trade authority vendor, other than the goofy black guy on Mars.

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Starfield - Fallout fallout that isn't ES6

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