Student Loans and the SAVE plan

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Control

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Both of my best friends in college got art degrees. They definitely learned all of that stuff at our university. They're both very successfully self-employed, with their own art businesses, including multiple published books. Additionally, one was a professional animator in Japan for a while, the other is a syndicated cartoonist.
Their art program taught them statistics? Suspending a very large amount of disbelief for a sec, then great, that's 2. Or are you actually saying that ALL of the other art students took courses on statistics and actually understood them?
 

Aldarion

Egg Nazi
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I disagree. First I doubt you took 5 semesters of English lit unless you are an English/lit/writing major.

That being said, the IFP/AA/General Ed or whatever it's called in the school serve a purpose. It's to teach the dumbfucks all the shit they failed to learn in high school. Since you're a professor (iirc) nothing I am about to say should surprise you. Freshman who haven't taken eng comp I yet and don't know what the intro/body/conclusion is. Who don't understand the most basic of punctuation. That a paragraph is more than one sentence. Fuck MLA, I'm talking basic composition fundamentals. I dealth with this every semester I was a GTA.

Now, if you want to dump the 5 or 6 electives that make up the IFP/AA then I'm ok with that. But Eng Comp 1&2, College Algebra and intro to Stats, a bio science, a hard science, a couple of humanities classes and a lit class or two all serve a purpose.
I specifically took five English Lit type classes (don't recall their exact titles) because they counted toward whatever bullshit category I needed to fill, and I find that kind of class to be the easiest zero effort A. Read a book and have some opinion about it, versus other bullshit non-science classes with actual facts that had to be learned.

I'll agree with you that they serve a purpose for a good chunk of students, but what you're describing is a remedial benefit. Theres zero logic in making everyone take these classes so the dumbfucks who didnt learn it in high school learn it now.

If youre actually prepared for college, you shouldnt be required to take classes outside your major period.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
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Their art program taught them statistics? Suspending a very large amount of disbelief for a sec, then great, that's 2. Or are you actually saying that ALL of the other art students took courses on statistics and actually understood them?
It was a general education requirement.

The sword cuts both ways here.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
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I specifically took five English Lit type classes (don't recall their exact titles) because they counted toward whatever bullshit category I needed to fill
So you chose to take those courses instead of other things like business communications or economics or whatever that would have served you better.

And now you're blaming the system for your choices?
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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So you chose to take those courses instead of other things like business communications or economics or whatever that would have served you better.

And now you're blaming the system for your choices?
I took Movies as Literature and Literature in Science Fiction and Fantasy. Easily two of the easiest classes possible for a nerd and checked the literature boxes.
 

Control

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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It was a general education requirement.

The sword cuts both ways here.
Ah, I stand corrected. I'll now go forth with the assumption that everyone with a college degree has a basic understanding of statistics!

Surely I won't be disappointed!

(They probably even know how to change their oil now too!)
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Ah, I stand corrected. I'll now go forth with the assumption that everyone with a college degree has a basic understanding of statistics!

Surely I won't be disappointed!

(They probably even know how to change their oil now too!)
Except that Stats is "one" of the options to satisfy that second math class (with College Algebra). Most choose "math for liberal arts majors" instead of Stats.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
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Ah, I stand corrected. I'll now go forth with the assumption that everyone with a college degree has a basic understanding of statistics!

Surely I won't be disappointed!

(They probably even know how to change their oil now too!)
Amazing how poor your reading comprehension is.
 
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Mist

REEEEeyore
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Except that Stats is "one" of the options to satisfy that second math class (with College Algebra). Most choose "math for liberal arts majors" instead of Stats.
At least in the Social Sciences, Math for Liberal Arts Majors is generally a skippable prerequisite for a second course, Stats for Social Sciences, which is then a prerequisite for Statistic Research Methods.

Regardless, this argument has transformed from "I was forced to take a bunch of pointless gen ed classes" to "I chose to take the most pointless courses for free credits instead of taking equivalent courses that would help me thrive inside a modern corporation."

College students should probably have less choices, they are young and stupid after all (because our high schools suck.)

It gets to my final point: Because too many people go to college, the whole experience has been dumbed down for a lower common denominator. If more people just went to community college and work FIRST, before going to a four-year school, that would change.
 

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Except that Stats is "one" of the options to satisfy that second math class (with College Algebra). Most choose "math for liberal arts majors" instead of Stats.
Stupid finance degree. Think I had at least two stats classes and calculus.

Ironically, I'm way better at basically every type of math than my wife and her applied math degree.
 

Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
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Ironically, I'm way better at basically every type of math than my wife and her applied math degree.

My wife has a MS in physics and is working as a data scientist and can't do arithmetic to save her life. Calculus, stats, no problem. I don't get it.
 

Koushirou

Log Wizard
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Isn’t there a trope about how the more complicated shit you’re good at, the worse you are at the simple shit? Had a friend of my brother who’s like that. Same thing, some kind of high end math degree, but simple addition and subtraction would take him a bit.
 

Control

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Amazing how poor your reading comprehension is.
Since I went to college, I've been assured that this is impossible. I can even stats and oilchange! Will the wonders of the general curricula ever cease!?
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Its amazing anyone could look at the educational system in the US and conclude the general non-subject-related courses arent a complete fucking waste of time.

Even funnier coming from a committed leftist like Mist, since this is a US centric thing. Canadian and European systems are almost entirely subject matter focused. Don't yall want us to be more like Europe?

Its one of the top 3 or 3 things wrong with post secondary education in the US. My five fucking semesters of English literature didnt make me a better communicator; they just got me out of taking other equally bullshit classes that had similarly nothing to fucking do with biology. It was all a collossal waste of time and money. I'd estimate half the courses I've taken in my life had nothing to do with anything in my major or field of study.

Then again, iirc Mist is a big fan of teacher certificates so its probably best to inverse his opinion on anything related to education.
Because I attended Army language school and took a bunch of CLEP tests I skipped nearly all of it. But god damn was I salty when I realized over half of your time in credit hours at university is dedicated to stupid bullshit and electives.

Thank God for DLI as it took out all of my electives and all of the English type classes. CLEP took out 90% of my general ed classes. So I was able to go straight into the subject matter stuff. Which was great.
 

Sanrith Descartes

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Because I attended Army language school and took a bunch of CLEP tests I skipped nearly all of it. But god damn was I salty when I realized over half of your time in credit hours at university is dedicated to stupid bullshit and electives.

Thank God for DLI as it took out all of my electives and all of the English type classes. CLEP took out 90% of my general ed classes. So I was able to go straight into the subject matter stuff. Which was great.
Which language did you learn?

I had a couple of buddies from my D&D group who went to Monterrey and learned Russian (cold war days). They would speak to each other in "thieves cant" ie.. Russian whenever they wanted to discuss fucking the party out of loot.

Thieves gonna be thieves.
 
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TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Which language did you learn?

I had a couple of buddies from my D&D group who went to Monterrey and learned Russian (cold war days). They would speak to each other in "thieves cant" ie.. Russian whenever they wanted to discuss fucking the party out of loot.

Thieves gonna be thieves.
Arabic.
 
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Jysin

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Its amazing anyone could look at the educational system in the US and conclude the general non-subject-related courses arent a complete fucking waste of time.

Even funnier coming from a committed leftist like Mist, since this is a US centric thing. Canadian and European systems are almost entirely subject matter focused. Don't yall want us to be more like Europe?

Its one of the top 3 or 3 things wrong with post secondary education in the US. My five fucking semesters of English literature didnt make me a better communicator; they just got me out of taking other equally bullshit classes that had similarly nothing to fucking do with biology. It was all a collossal waste of time and money. I'd estimate half the courses I've taken in my life had nothing to do with anything in my major or field of study.

Then again, iirc Mist is a big fan of teacher certificates so its probably best to inverse his opinion on anything related to education.
If you want this for the youth in the US, you could consider joining the military. It's been a long while, but my time as a Navy ET (Electronics Technician) was basically 18 months of pure electronics school and troubleshooting down to a component level. 8-10 hours a day, all day, every day. It was a mandatory 6 year enlistment at the time due to the ~2 years of school (bootcamp, tech core, ET school, specialist "C school") before getting assigned your first orders. There wasn't a single moment wasted on english or social course load bs. Most decent techs get out after the first enlistment and go on into the civvy world making bank. I got out at 24 years old on a Thursday, went to work on the Monday as a contractor making 6 figures (2002 money).

I have zero regrets in my path. Never took on stupid amounts of student loans, never wasted time in general studies, got straight into serious employment for a fortune 50 company and maxing my 401k out at 24 years old.

The key is being very particular on your specific career field. Don't sign up for any bullshit career path. Get something directly transferrable into a high skills & demand career.
 
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Aldarion

Egg Nazi
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It gets to my final point: Because too many people go to college, the whole experience has been dumbed down for a lower common denominator. If more people just went to community college and work FIRST, before going to a four-year school, that would change.
This is absolutely true and its one of the top 3 problems with the modern educational system.

It will also never change. Try telling any business it needs to sell its product to fewer people next year, and even fewer the year after that.