The Astronomy Thread

Phazael

Phazael

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Big Phoenix_sl said:
Makes sense. Probably means there are subterranean rivers and lakes?
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Possibly, but unlikely. There are no large free standing bodies of water on the planet and (if I recall) no signs of volcanic activity to indicate an active tectonic system. The general thought is that you need these sorts of things for underground reservoirs to be created or all the moisture just sort of spreads and seeps out into the mantle, which is more or less what they detected indicates. Its still really helpful for establishing a colony, in the long term, since if they can extract enough native water then there is a lot they can do without dragging a ton of extra raw materials from earth. It will make establishing things like hydroponics and localized nuclear reactors a hell of a lot simpler.
 
iannis

iannis

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I read the article and did some perfunctory wiki/google digging... it seems like 2% actuallyissort of a lot. It's hardly lush and shit, but that seems like just barely enough to work with.
 
Tuco

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Dumb question: If it's as high as 2% how come we haven't found any water before?
 
iannis

iannis

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Viking had different landing sites. The "may be global due to windstorms" is probably the typically "great science reporting, guys" part of the headline.

Even oasisises es seem like significant news though.
 
Big Phoenix

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How is this really news though?

Evaporating_ice_on_Mars_Phoenix_lander_image.jpg
 
TheBeagle

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You really don't know why the discovery of easily accessible water on the closet planet to Earth is news?
 
Big Phoenix

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Well with that image I was trying to infer that didnt we already know/discover this a few years ago?

On June 19, 2008 (sol 24), NASA announced that dice-sized clumps of bright material in the "Dodo-Goldilocks" trench dug by the robotic arm had vaporized over the course of four days, strongly implying that they were composed of water ice which sublimated following exposure. While dry ice also sublimates, under the conditions present it would do so at a rate much faster than observed.[45][46][47]

On July 31, 2008 (sol 65), NASA announced that Phoenix confirmed the presence of water ice on Mars, as predicted in 2002 by the Mars Odyssey orbiter. During the initial heating cycle of a new sample, TEGA's mass spectrometer detected water vapor when the sample temperature reached 0 ?C.[48] Liquid water cannot exist on the surface of Mars with its present low atmospheric pressure, except at the lowest elevations for short periods.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_lander
 
Melvin

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^ Exactly. Water that's close to the surface at one location near the North pole is one thing, water that's close to potentially the entire surface of the planet is a little more interesting.
 
Furry

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This is definitely huge news. Mars used to have lakes, used to have rivers, and water isnt as hard to find there as we thought. Now we just need to figure out where to look for signs that life used to exist there.
 
meStevo

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I think the news is the context. They have the right tools on the surface to scoop and analyze the dirt, and when heating it they found these results. They're results that they believe are indicative of the vast majority of the surface layer, not just 'well we landed on some' type of results. Previous mobile samplers didn't have this capability. So this is more of a widespread confirmation, that they're undoubtedly re-confirm a dozen or more times over the course of the mission (if not dozens).

Anyone else read it similarly, and agree? Or am I missing something?
 
Phazael

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Assumptions based on visual observation are a lot less significant than chemical sensors verifying the presence and quantity in the soil, to be sure. This is actual hard data that they can start formulating colonization plans around, which is what makes it a bigger deal. If this is planet wide in the temperate zones, then colonizing Mars just got a shit ton more feasible. If there are any sort of easily accessible minerals in the same areas, I think its a forgone conclusion before the end of the century, assuming the jesus freaks don't plunge us into WW3 before then.
 
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I always assumed that the biggest benefit of water ice on nearby celestial bodies was essentially cost-savings on fuel. A fuel source that we can have in space, without having to pay the fuel costs of lifting it outside of the earths gravity
 
iannis

iannis

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Plus it's essential for every life function that you have.

It all takes place in the medium of water.

Like if we went to mars and found a field of wild maize in the bottom of a canyon, that would be a big deal too. It's basic needs type of shit. Food, Water, Shelter. We -can- bring all 3, but for every pound we don't have to bring the trip gets cheaper.
 
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Iannis_sl said:
Plus it's essential for every life function that you have.

It all takes place in the medium of water.

Like if we went to mars and found a field of wild maize in the bottom of a canyon, that would be a big deal too. It's basic needs type of shit. Food, Water, Shelter. We -can- bring all 3, but for every pound we don't have to bring the trip gets cheaper.
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True enough. I was making my point based upon the fact that fuel is by far the largest cost inhibitor in space flight though AFAIK. I wasn't denigrating the possibilities of space corn.
 
Araysar

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doesnt mean shit if theyre not in the goldilocks zone

size means nothing
 
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