The Beer Thread

Ao- · Mar 17, 2015

Tenks_sl said:
I saw a news bit on CBS Sunday Morning about the founder of Stone trying to break his beer into the German market. Apparently craft brew is starting to take off so much over there the "big beer" places are trying to challenge it by bringing up ancient laws of purity that state anything labeled "Beer" can only consist of the basic beer ingredients. So him having chocolate and cinnamon and all that removes it from being labeled Beer because of this middle ages law lol.

The Reinheitsgebot (Reinheitsgebot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) - Which is fucking hilarious, because it doesn't include Yeast as an allowed ingredient and it sets the maximum price of the beer. So no rice, no yeast (unless sediment from a previous batch or open fermented), no wheat, no rye, and it's can ONLY cost $0.10/mug.

Like 10 breweries world-wide "brew in compliance" to it.

opiate82 · Mar 18, 2015

Yeast was added as an allowable ingredient to the Reinheitsgebot in the 1800's. Now German breweries operate under the Provisional Beer Law which is kind of a revised Reinheitsgebot that basically stipulates what can and cannot be labeled as bier and is where Stone is running into problems with their brewery over there.

Tenks · Mar 23, 2015

Tröegs Nugget Nectar | Tröegs Brewing Company | Hershey, PA | BeerAdvocate

Had this over the weekend. Was freaking great. Had a similar flavor to an IPA but less bitter.

Alex · Mar 23, 2015

Almost everything Tr?egs makes is really good. I remember Catskellar, the on-campus for for University of Cincinnati, always had their beers and we would pound those post-class.

opiate82 · Mar 23, 2015

Some interesting beer-related news. First is that the BA just released the 2014 craft beer sales numbers and craft beer now has double-digit market share (11%). Even a few short years ago people were questioning whether hitting double digits was even possible. The growth of craft beer continues to be staggering.

Next is an interesting article about which style of beer is driving that growth. Unsurprisingly it is IPA but what surprised me is how the style continues to grow, it had a 47% increase in volume produced in 2014 (which far outpaces the 17% total volume increase). It seems like the new cool thing is to hate on IPAs but obviously those beer hipsters are just a small vocal minority.Is IPA responsible for the growth of the craft beer industry? | Seattle, Washington, Pacific Northwest

Alex · Mar 23, 2015

Despite being relatively over IPAs, I still drink a good amount of them because at many places they still tend to be the best beer on tap. A lot of bars will have an awful selection like Bud heavy, Bud Light, Coors Light, Miller Lite, Samuel Adams, Lagunitas IPA, Blue Moon. There's no question which beer I'm getting there.

Lost Virtue · Mar 23, 2015

Alex_sl said:
Despite being relatively over IPAs, I still drink a good amount of them because at many places they still tend to be the best beer on tap. A lot of bars will have an awful selection like Bud heavy, Bud Light, Coors Light, Miller Lite, Samuel Adams, Lagunitas IPA, Blue Moon. There's no question which beer I'm getting there.

I may get some flack for saying this but Sam Adams is probably the best "non-domestic, national craft brewers" out there. Lagunitas is great too. Obviously there is much better out there, but for something you can find anywhere that serves the likes of piss-water Bud/Miller, they are quite decent.

opiate82 · Mar 23, 2015

I also don't mind a Sam Adams if anything because of how they act as a company. They may be huge but they have been great allies for craft brewing. During some of the hop shortages they were selling surpluses they had at cost to breweries, they offer up loans to small breweries that might not otherwise be able to get them, and also do some really cool things for homebrewing.

Their beer isn't the most exciting but I'm happy to buy a Boston Lager over any other macro-produced offering some of the less beer-affluent bars might have on tap.

Tenks · Mar 23, 2015

I've always viewed Sam's as more a gateway into the real beer scene. They make some cool stuff (IMO the Cherry Wheat is my favorite "fruity" beer) but overall it all kind of tastes the same to me and generally watered down. Which is probably great for the demo they're going after who doesn't want to be punched in the nuts by hops and bitter flavor.

Ao- · Mar 24, 2015

BA shit pisses me off. How much of that "growth" was due to the way they changed their classification of craft beer (and added quite a few breweries that weren't eligible before)?

opiate82 · Mar 24, 2015

Ao-_sl said:
BA shit pisses me off. How much of that "growth" was due to the way they changed their classification of craft beer (and added quite a few breweries that weren't eligible before)?

The only thing I know that they changed is expanding the production limit (from 2mil bbls up to 6mil bbls) to keep Sam Adams in the fold. When you are trying to keep up with the lobbying dollars of the likes of InBev you can't cast out your cash cow. Unless you know something I don't...

*edit: It's funny, as I dig into the issue more I'm realizing that the BA is actually looking at quite the conundrum when it comes to defining craft beer. Companies like Elysian, 10 BBL, Goose Island, etc. that have been bought in part or whole by InBev are no longer considered craft breweries. However, companies like Southern Tier and Unita which raised a ton capital via private equity firms are allowed to remain in the fold. Both instances the breweries essentially giving up some of their "independance" (which is part of the BA's definition of a craft brewery) in exchange for financing, and to this point are all still creating a product that without arbitrary labels would be considered craft brews by consumers.

Also I still didn't find anything other than upping the production limit that the BA changed in its definition of craft beer...

To be considered a craft brewer in the eyes of the BA, a brewery must be small (produce less than 6 million barrels), independent (less than 25 percent owned by an alcoholic beverage industry member that is not itself a craft brewer), and traditional (the majority of a brewery's total beverage alcohol volume is in beer, instead of alternative products like flavored malt beverages).

Tenks · Mar 24, 2015

That seems like a pretty logical and concise answer to "What is a craft brewer" in my eyes ...

Ao- · Mar 24, 2015

opiate82_sl said:
The only thing I know that they changed is expanding the production limit (from 2mil bbls up to 6mil bbls) to keep Sam Adams in the fold. When you are trying to keep up with the lobbying dollars of the likes of InBev you can't cast out your cash cow. Unless you know something I don't...

*edit: It's funny, as I dig into the issue more I'm realizing that the BA is actually looking at quite the conundrum when it comes to defining craft beer. Companies like Elysian, 10 BBL, Goose Island, etc. that have been bought in part or whole by InBev are no longer considered craft breweries. However, companies like Southern Tier and Unita which raised a ton capital via private equity firms are allowed to remain in the fold. Both instances the breweries essentially giving up some of their "independance" (which is part of the BA's definition of a craft brewery) in exchange for financing, and to this point are all still creating a product that without arbitrary labels would be considered craft brews by consumers.

Also I still didn't find anything other than upping the production limit that the BA changed in its definition of craft beer...

Traditional
A brewer that has a majority of its total beverage alcohol volume in beers whose flavor derives from traditional or innovative brewing ingredients and their fermentation. Flavored malt beverages (FMBs) are not considered beers.

They added "traditional or" and renamed the Innovation section. The second oldest family owned brewery in the US (August Schell's Brewery out of New Ulm, MN) produces a beer that's made mainly from corn. Why was it made with corn? Because 122 years ago it was the cheapest and most plentiful adjunct that could be used. Since Schell's made Grain Belt with corn not for flavor but because the recipe called for it for traditional reasons, the BA wouldn't let them into the "American Craft Beer" club. Last year, Schell's finally said "Fuck it, we're German Craft Beer" and BA changed the definition to let Schell's in.

Greg Koch (while a nice guy in person) went on a huge tirade of "Craft" versus "Crafty" and made some heavy negative implication against Schell's because of the use of corn.

opiate82 · Mar 25, 2015

Looks like Schell's is in the 100-200k range in bbl production (~125k in '13). In 2013 they would have only accounted for 8/10ths of a % of craft beer sales and their addition to the BA numbers are easily offset by the ousting of Elysian and 10 bbl (not to mention GI which eclipses them all). I don't think letting them into the fold had any sway over the numbers of craft beer growth that the BA put out. I personally have no issues with corn or rice being used as brewing ingredients. Currently 89% of the beer market share is occupied by beers made with either of those two ingredients and it would be a disservice to small breweries to say the inclusion of those ingredients results in the exclusion of them from craft beer. Besides, I know of plenty of craft breweries that make a Cream Ale which also traditionally includes corn and I haven't heard of them being ostracized from the BA due to it...

Also I've never met him in person, but Greg Koch comes across as a pompous ass to me. Doesn't stop me from loving Stone beer but Greg should thank Mitch for any of my beer dollars that go Stone's way.

Ao- · Mar 25, 2015

opiate82_sl said:
Looks like Schell's is in the 100-200k range in bbl production (~125k in '13). In 2013 they would have only accounted for 8/10ths of a % of craft beer sales and their addition to the BA numbers are easily offset by the ousting of Elysian and 10 bbl (not to mention GI which eclipses them all). I don't think letting them into the fold had any sway over the numbers of craft beer growth that the BA put out. I personally have no issues with corn or rice being used as brewing ingredients. Currently 89% of the beer market share is occupied by beers made with either of those two ingredients and it would be a disservice to small breweries to say the inclusion of those ingredients results in the exclusion of them from craft beer. Besides, I know of plenty of craft breweries that make a Cream Ale which also traditionally includes corn and I haven't heard of them being ostracized from the BA due to it...

I'm sure it's not just Schell's, but I'm also sure that it didn't really make that big an increase in the overall number for the BA. I'm just bitter. Also, brewing with corn/rice wasn't a problem as long as you said it was for flavor. Schell's wouldn't (and specifically, the owner wouldn't, a couple of the brewers wanted to) say it was for flavor, they maintained it was just for tradition.

opiate82_sl said:
Also I've never met him in person, but Greg Koch comes across as a pompous ass to me. Doesn't stop me from loving Stone beer but Greg should thank Mitch for any of my beer dollars that go Stone's way.

I went to GABF a few years ago, had been hiking and drinking around Denver (without enough water or time to deal with the altitude change coming from the midwest) and got pretty sick in the Farm to Table section in the back. He actually gave me a little pep talk and handed me some water.

Lost Virtue · Mar 28, 2015

I am starting to feel sorry for Jim Koch (Sam Adams). He basically helped make craft brews what they are today and is being decimated in terms of pubs no longer carrying his selections, or very few. A few places around Indiana and Kentucky no longer have Sam Adam's offerings on tap, but have to me MUCH lesser options (almost equivalent to rice-water InBev trash). Guy is probably one of the nicest guys I've ever met before and still does a lot for the craft brewers of the US (as mentioned before; helping breweries during hop shrotages, etc).

Interesting story...

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/restau...am-adams-beer/

opiate82 · Mar 30, 2015

Lost Virtue_sl said:
Interesting story...

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/restau...am-adams-beer/

That was a pretty interesting read. I generally like Jim Koch but he can be a control freak sometimes. Stomping back into the walk-in of a random bar to check exp. dates on kegs? A little over the top. Also the same guy who packs his own glass into bars because he thinks his design is superior. Even if he doesn't like West Coast IPA's I'm sure he has some brewers working for him who he could have empowered to make one for them long before now. (And frankly, Rebel falls flat in that department anyways...)

On the flip side this is also the same guy who (although he hasn't admitted it) tricked a good portion internet into eating spoonfuls of yeast to curb drunkenness and made the Brew Dogs inoculate a wort with yeast by having all of them bathe in it.

I'm not sure that I can feel too bad for a billionaire, and people shouldn't buy his beers solely because craft beer "owes them," but I do think they tend to get lumped in with the likes of InBev when, other than size, they couldn't be any less like them.

Pro tip, eating brewers yeast won't do anything to make you less drunk, but will um, how do you say, "move things along" in your bowels...

Araxen · Mar 30, 2015

Lost Virtue_sl said:
I am starting to feel sorry for Jim Koch (Sam Adams). He basically helped make craft brews what they are today and is being decimated in terms of pubs no longer carrying his selections, or very few. A few places around Indiana and Kentucky no longer have Sam Adam's offerings on tap, but have to me MUCH lesser options (almost equivalent to rice-water InBev trash). Guy is probably one of the nicest guys I've ever met before and still does a lot for the craft brewers of the US (as mentioned before; helping breweries during hop shrotages, etc).

Interesting story...

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/restau...am-adams-beer/

Fucker needs to bring back Sam Adams Black Lager. That stuff was great beer and they only made it a limited release. It should be a full time beer for them!

Ao- · Mar 31, 2015

Friend just drove back to the Midwest from Florida, brought me back some DFH 90min and Palo Santo, Jai Alai, Swamphead, Anderson Farms, and Yuengling. Pretty psyched.

Khane · Mar 31, 2015

Araxen_sl said:
Fucker needs to bring back Sam Adams Black Lager. That stuff was great beer and they only made it a limited release. It should be a full time beer for them!

That really was a great beer. I didn't even know it was a limited release.

The Beer Thread

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bronze Squire

Bronze Knight of the Realm

Still a Music Elitist

Bronze Squire

Still a Music Elitist

Trakanon Raider

Bronze Squire

Bronze Knight of the Realm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bronze Squire

Bronze Knight of the Realm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bronze Squire

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Trakanon Raider

Bronze Squire

Golden Baronet of the Realm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Got something right about marriage