So there exists things that can be turned into a government service for the purposes of regulation that you do not object to?
No. The government sucks at everything.
But me objecting to it doesn't mean it's suddenly socialism.
- 1
So there exists things that can be turned into a government service for the purposes of regulation that you do not object to?
If we could all pay $5 a year and everyone had unlimited free healthcare you, and every other rational person would say its a good idea.
You are agreeing to the idea that socializing one thing is far apart from socializing everything then?
Talking about the facts and the numbers are totally a thing, but just conceptually socializing something doesn't HAVE to lead to just be because "someone who wants socialism either wants free stuff ... or they are better off than they would be and they are misguided fools who don't think rationally with a world view that's comprehensive. "
If we could all pay $5 a year and everyone had unlimited free healthcare you, and every other rational person would say its a good idea. Socializing any 'thing' could be a bad idea, or could be a good idea, but its not automatically bad just because the word socialism.
Any rational argument gets drowned out with memes and buzzwords so fast there's no chance. Past that I would love to have an honest conversation with intelligent people who disagree with my worldview.
I think a big problem is people wont be critical of people or arguments from their own side, take that Chowder vid for example. His argument for why Democratic Socialism and Socialism are the same thing is terrible. Uses a Sanders soundbite from a debate to use as his counter definition, then attacks that definition because Sanders didn't really answer the question, he just pivoted into a slogan instead of explaining it. But here's the thing, everyone's statements from all debates are just pivots to slogans, you've watched debates before you remember how annoying it was when no one ever actually answers the moderators questions just so they can find a way to get in a soundbite. If I agreed with that guy that video would piss me off.
Would you agree with the assessment that saying someone who wants Socialism just wants free stuff is as poor an argument as anyone who supports Trump is a white supremacist? Its impossible with so many people in both camps that either one is completely filed with stupid people, that means there are intelligent, rational people who disagree with you. Don't you want to know why?
Personally I think at this point in Human evolution we need more socialism to correct problems that capitalism has caused. Sacred cows need to be killed (on both sides) and I think transitioning some things into central public control are the best ways to kill those cows.
Obviously there is a ton of detail and nuance that 2 sentences will never convey, but no one gets past the 'you are just a retarded cuck' argument to explain to me why doing things the way you want them done will be better for us then doing them the way i want to do them.
Lets see if we can come to an agreement on what socialism means.
To me, socialism is taking a 'thing' and putting under collective control. 99 out of 100 times this collective control will be a government but its not strictly required. Remember when Reagan federalized the air traffic controllers? That's the type of socialism i'm talking about. The fact that I am better off paying x$'s into taxes so a collective hired to specifically to manage the 'thing' and can use the resources in ways the individual never can. If you could personally ah la cart your taxes, or if States had the responsibility of forming and maintaining a military, or a postal service, or public works, whatever; you would never have stealth bombers or e-mail. Some things are just better when controlled in a socialized manner, not everything, but some things.