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DirkDonkeyroot

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My GMs have always been more pragmatic. If you have too much wealth lying around, you're going to attract people who want it. And sometimes they are stronger and/or sneaker than you.
Dragons fix everything. Got a shit ton of wealth laying around? Red Dragon. Maybe one of the subjects of this lord aquired some stolen dragon loot and intentionally sent it as part of his tithe knowing it would attract it's previous owner. 2 hooks in 1.
 

Grabbit Allworth

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matt colville put a book out, strongholds. it's pretty good. it's basically about your characters having a castle or whatever. if gives them something to spend money on (upgrades) as well as giving the players tangible benefits. my DM is using some modified rules for it, but for example, if we rest at our keep for a few days in a row, we each get a benefit depending on our class. when the fighter uses action surge, the first attack that hits is an automatic crit. he gets 1 use of that and then has to rest at the keep again for several days. if you upgrade the keep, he can use that twice. when our cleric uses channel divinity, all allies within 30 feet get like 2d8 healing or something.

there's also hirelings that you get depending on your class. they are stripped down npc's that get 2 or 3 abilities and comparable stats and gear to someone half their level (or something, i don't remember). point is, it gives the players something to do with their money
I have that book and it's pretty useful. Some complain that there isn't enough crunch in it, but I think it's fine.

There are several other similar files on the DMsGuild that I find just as, if not more, useful. In fact, DMsGuild is an absolute treasure trove of amazing content. The problem is that a lot of it is trash, too. I'll typically download a file I'm interested in from thetrove and if it doesn't suck, I'll go and buy it.
 
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TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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5E isn't the only system where gold has caused DM's a headache; it's been a 'problem' for a long time.


The DMsguild has a lot of files that offer fantastic material which solves many of the problems related to gold. For the life of me I can't remember the names of the files right now but I'll look through my massive pile of DMsguild pdfs to get the names.

Back to my point, there are options that allow upgrading weapons and armor through a progressively expensive system of runes and/or gems. It's actually quite elegant and well-balanced. Not only does it help 'solve' the gold problem, it also gives player agency over their equipment and allows them to slowly build the type of gearset that they desire. Before I read it, I was skeptical that it might be too video-gamey, but it's definitely not.

There are a lot of other options, but weapons and armor are the easiest to implement with immediate impact and likely near the top of interest for a lot of players. It also offers some potential roleplaying and quest hooks. I.e. 1. The more powerful the rune/gem inlay the more rare the artisan and players might seek out the only craftsman capable of that level of work who then might refuse to do the work until the players do something for him. The craftsman might even take a player under his wing and teach him/her the basics of the craft. 2. The materials are specific, but rare and require the players to obtain them, themselves. 3. The incantation/ritual/whatever is a lost art, but may exist in X.
This is one of my favorite thing to do when I have power-hungry players. You want to advance you have to deal with an incredibly eccentric, dangerous, and totally batshit legendary crafter of some kind who will ask completely ridiculous bullshit of you. Oh boy does it piss off munchkins when the ending thing that the guy asked for was actually completely worthless except to the crafter guy. A keepsake from centuries ago he missed not magical or anything. Just a wooden carving from his childhood that he forgot somewhere in his ancient homeland (which is now an undead infested shithole or something). Shit like that.

But I am also big on getting items with breadcrumbs that they need to be constructed/reforged or whatever in the early game.
 
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Grabbit Allworth

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This is the PDF I was referencing earlier in the thread. There are also a few others, but this one is great. If you want a copy, let me know.


I have this and it is an amazing campaign.


Call from the Deep for those interested.



Do any of you have:


I haven't found a free copy to read before I decide to spend $35. JVCs Call from the Deep campaign is absolutely amazing. It's easily on par (or better) than any of the official campaigns WoTC has published so I'm optimistic DR will be good too.


*edit* Before any of you call me a schill, pump your breaks. I don't know any of these authors and I have absolutely no financial interest in any of these items. I'm just offering suggestions for products that are genuinely good because there is a lot of sub-par stuff that gets published at the DMsGuild.
 
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Aaron

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I've been playing campaigns with my friends since 5e was launched, and it's very rare to see anything magical before lvl 5, which I think is a shame. Having recently looked over the lists of minor and major beneficial and detrimental things you can put on weapons, armour and jewelry and shit there's tons of room to make fun stuff to hand out at early levels that won't make the characters OP. For example, you can give a melee class a weapon that is the same as their starter weapon, but allows them to cast one cantrip of the DM's choice, or gain proficiency in a skill. Maybe add a minor detriment too, such as any plants you touch wither and die. This adds a bit of flavour to the game while not breaking anything. Then, after lvl 5, change it out again for something more potent, and so on.
 

Rime

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Some of the best fun in D&D is searching for/stealing/looting/questing/etc for magical items. It is my primary issue with Fifth Edition. The majority of modules have little to no magical loot in them (LMoP is a bit odd in the fact that there are SEVERAL +1 or Equiv magical items in it). I am not asking for full on Monty Hall, but there has to be a happy medium between Rules-as-Written (permanent) magical item scarcity that is 5e and the It-Is-Raining +5 Vorpal, Holy, Fiery Burst Greatswords that was 3.5.
 

Fyff

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The great news about d and d is you can run a campaign any way you want!
 
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Arden

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The great news about d and d is you can run a campaign any way you want!
Absolutely you can. But I think we've all played enough games/systems to realize that a system's intended design regarding things like itemization makes a difference. Sure, you can do whatever you want in just about any system, but bucking system design (especially for itemization) is going to break things pretty fast. Yes, you can always make further adjustments (boost NPC power etc), but in the end it's a ton of work and time.

All this is just to say the itemization/magic design in 5e is a pretty common and legitimate complaint. You may not agree with the complaint, but it's pretty easy to see why people would have an issue with it (and why there isn't a super easy fix for it).
 
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j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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see, but i think went with the best option, they underpowered magic drops and what not, so that DM's could easily just add items, instead of dm's feeling like magic drops are too much and feeling like if they lessen the impact of magic items, now every encounter is too hard. it's ALWAYS easier to buff things than it is to nerf them.

and sure, once you start customizing magic items above the normal "you rolled a 100 on the treasure table, so here's a healing potion," you'll end up having to customize the encounters so that the player's don't just steam roll everything... and you run the risk of overpowering the encounters, especially when you get to higher levels. players have so many options at their disposal that it actually becomes hard to kill them as long as the dice gods don't make an example out of them.

my last weekly campaign we went from lvl 1 to 20 (and continued for a while after we got to 20) and my current weekly campaign we are currently lvl 16 and will continue into the new year at least.. the DM likes high level stuff because there are creatures and situations you don't get to use unless the players are high level, but he's also commented how difficult it is to plan encounters because once players get to a certain power level, you basically can't kill them unless you just outright stack the deck so hard against them that they clearly aren't supposed to survive, and even then we've pulled off some shenanigans out of left field. adding magic items, especially too early, fundamentally changes the party's power level in non-linear ways that can be hard to prepare for.

that being said, as a player i love magic items. and when you're in a world where magic items aren't falling from the sky, it feels even better walking into town like rock stars decked in powerful relics while everyone in town is in dirty rags.
 

Fyff

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Absolutely you can. But I think we've all played enough games/systems to realize that a system's intended design regarding things like itemization makes a difference. Sure, you can do whatever you want in just about any system, but bucking system design (especially for itemization) is going to break things pretty fast. Yes, you can always make further adjustments (boost NPC power etc), but in the end it's a ton of work and time.

All this is just to say the itemization/magic design in 5e is a pretty common and legitimate complaint. You may not agree with the complaint, but it's pretty easy to see why people would have an issue with it (and why there isn't a super easy fix for it).
I allowed my group to spend their gold in water deep between phandelver and dotmm on magic items using the prices from online. It has made exactly zero difference.

In 5e the power scales extremely quickly and each level continues to push the power curve in my opinion. The players are generally much more powerful than their magic items. I haven't seen an issue with too many or too few items in the official modules.

I have played princes of the apocalypse and ghosts of saltmarsh. I have run phandelver and dotmm.
 
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Grabbit Allworth

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I allowed my group to spend their gold in water deep between phandelver and dotmm on magic items using the prices from online. It has made exactly zero difference.

In 5e the power scales extremely quickly and each level continues to push the power curve in my opinion. The players are generally much more powerful than their magic items. I haven't seen an issue with too many or too few items in the official modules.

I have played princes of the apocalypse and ghosts of saltmarsh. I have run phandelver and dotmm.
"In your opinion."

Nearly everything published by WoTC for 5E is done with the consideration that players are 'magic(item)-poor.'

Magic items definitely do have an objective, profound impact on 5E games unless you're allowing players to exploit some of the more suspect RaW. For example -- if you allow players to take unmolested, Long Rests whenever they like, then most encounters are going to be trivial because they're always 'at full power.' That once-a-day triggered Lightning Bolt from a magic ring is a lot less impactful when the player can just take a quick snooze and cast 5 of them. On the other hand, when a party is constantly being harassed, their abilities exhausted, and they can't find an opportunity for more than a quick breather, the player is going to be elated when he remembers that bolt. Lots of players complain that 5E is not deadly enough and the resting system has a lot to do with it. It's trash and one of the first things I changed.

I suppose one exception where they might not be as impactful is in a group of die-hard min/max'ers, but I find that to be a fairly rare occurrence.

However, the debate is rather pointless because there are far too many variables (house rules, DM skill, etc) that can muddle the mix.

Personally, as I've said before in this thread, I ignore the low-magic suggestion of 5E. Loot is a huge chunk of the fun for a lot of players and it's honestly not that difficult to off-set the additional power you give to players.

That said, action economy is king in 5E. Basically, whomever does the most 'stuff' has a huge advantage. In 5E, Kobolds and Goblins are pretty weak, but in large numbers they will pose a threat, even to relatively powerful characters. Simply because of Action Economy and Bounded Accuracy. In previous editions, a reasonably well-geared 10th level Fighter could stand in the middle of 100 Kobolds, do nothing for 10 minutes and not die.

The most obvious magic items that need to be carefully considered before being given to players are ones that have a HUGE impact on the economy -- like: effects that award additional attacks per turn, area effects that do massive damage (potential to remove too many actions from the economy in one action), and effects that are extremely reliable forms of group crowd control.

You can still give players cool shit, but just limit it. The best way to do that restrict how often it can be used. So many DMs are hung up on the daily use, but I often give players very cool and powerful items that can only be used weekly, monthly, or require that they be 're-charged' in some specific way. Some are a single use. Some can also fail, but I use that mechanic far less often because it leads to too many feel-bad moments. These limitations can create some fun, tense moments of choice. "Jim, shit is hitting the fan, I think you need to use the Staff of OMGWTFBBQ!" "You, sure? You know I can't use it again until I bathe it in the light of a full moon." "Do it!"

It's also not a great idea to give players access to abilities related to movement before they're available to the party's casters. Flight and Teleportation are two glaringly obvious examples. I tend to keep those out of the hands of my players for as long as it makes sense.

And finally, Divination spells cast by veteran and/or clever players will sneak up on inexperienced DMs and leave them winging entire sessions. Tread carefully.

I have a bit of Divination-related PTSD from my early days as a DM. One of my players was a 'Seer.' That fool was extremely clever with his inquiries and he was constantly undermining entire story arcs that were supposed to last weeks or months. Fortunately, most players aren't as clever as he was, but, unfortunately, the others at the table learned from watching him. So, the next campaign was run with the rule that Divination magic had been outlawed by an extraordinarily powerful organization of Wizards. All use of the school was monitored and violations were progressively sanctioned (up to the point of death). The law was spun to the public to be in their best interest, but the reality was that the ban was to hide the simultaneous coup of multiple nations. I know my bare-bones explanation sounds very lame and 'trope'ish,' but the way I implemented it was really well done. I just wish the reasoning hadn't been to run blocks for the holes in my DM playbook.

Despite my efforts, the players wouldn't be denied. They actually pushed the entire campaign towards the goal of reversing the ban on Divination. Through many resistance-unifying Cloak and Dagger missions, lots of political intrigue, several epic battles with powerful wizards, and a handful of emotional PC deaths -- they won. We all had A LOT of fun with that campaign. And being a fairly new DM at the time, it taught me a few lessons. Most importantly, a DM should never take a such a heavy-handed approach to dealing with situations created by clever players.
 
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j00t

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Friend of mine is the same way as your seer, except with illusions. After a short campaign, the DM actually banned illusionists from his table so he could spend a bunch of time figuring out how to deal with them. The player was outright sidestepping all kinds of extremely difficult and we'll crafted encounters.

Hes a great DM so it's not an issue anymore... He even has that illusion wizard show up as an NPC dues ex machina every now and again to help us get out of unwinnable encounters.
 
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LachiusTZ

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Parachuting in...

Do you guys play as a FoH group?

Thinking about playing some, or starting a small d&d group and sitting in on a few sessions etc
 

Grabbit Allworth

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Parachuting in...

Do you guys play as a FoH group?

Thinking about playing some, or starting a small d&d group and sitting in on a few sessions etc
No. I've never actually played a game online. I'm not against it, but I've just always played in my home.
 

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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playing in person with your friends is pretty great. i also had a friend of mine who ran a group with people i had never met. we met at a comic book store and it was about as awkward as you think.

for the last 4 years or so, though i've been playing online with fantasy grounds just because all my friends are adults now with their own lives who live in separate states. there are definitely some drawbacks to doing it over discord... sometimes technology just doesn't feel like playing nice. it's the difference between playing couch co-op and playing online. even if it's with the same people you miss something.

but it is what it is.

personally 2 of my campaigns are ending soonish, and we are starting 2 new campaigns this week, so while i love DnD, i'm a bit full.
 

Rease

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On the magical loot issue one of the Discord D&D shared world communites I belong to and play in deals with it in a decent way. You get what is called Drops based upon time adventuring, level and rank(based on amount of characters, levels, special events) and so on. You have a limit of Drops you can have based on what level you are and your personal rank on the server. You can use these drops to enchant mundane items or to buy magic items. You can also turn magic items into drops at a reduced rate when you are done with or have out leveled an items usefulness. There are a bunch of rules intertwined like the max enchants in number and type depending on mundane or magic item quality. There are lists of effects you can add etc. They use all published 5e stuff as well certain unearthed arcana. If anyone wants more info let me know. They fit the Drops mechanic into the lore of the server and the area it takes place in.
 
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Locnar

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If you aren't playing 1st edition, you aren't really playing D&D

1605804376660.png
 
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Arden

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If anyone has played both PF2 and DnD5e, I'd love to hear an analysis/comparison.
 

Fyff

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I've played both. Pathfinder has one good rule. If you hit by more than 10 over their AC it is considered a crit. Other than that, it is unnecessarily complex to get basically what you get in D and D 5e.
 
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