The D&D thread

Oh I've also got a bit of dwarven forge stuff. So one time I made all of plane of hate on an 10ft table. And another time I made a portion of sebillis and had them fight trakanon. And yes he dropped 2 bps.

Not sure why anyone still giving WOTC any money.

ziggyholiday said:

Supposedly 4th had a neat mech, skill challenges or some such.

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4e had a few mechanics that were definitely good (skill challenges being one of the best) and I continue to use several of them in my 5e campaign. However, the system as a whole is too 'video-gamey.'

When 4e was being developed the entire TTRPG genre was being gutted by MMORPGs. MMOs were at their peak and a huge percentage of people that had been tabletop players switched over to games like WoW, LotRO, etc. So, WotC tried to create a tabletop experience that was a lot like MMOs to try and win back those players, but...it sucked.

TTRPGs are a fundamentally different experience than what MMOs offer and trying to integrate the two was destined for failure because it's literally impossible to code a game where anything that a DM and/or player conceives is possible. Not to mention the social element of the game. I know that a lot of great relationships have been built through people playing together in MMOs, but the environment in a TTRPG is just more intimate and meaningful. For example - dying and respawning 25 times while you and a couple friends learn the pattern of a particularly difficult boss doesn't hold a candle to you and those same friends carefully making your way through a dungeon because you know that if shit goes sideways and someone dies you either can't afford or don't have the power to bring that friend back from the dead.

All said, I understand that WotC was desperate because D&D was on life-support in the late 2000s. They tossed a Hail Mary and it didn't work. However, 5e single-handedly brought the company back from the brink to an ultra-successful company and 5e is a great system with flaws like every game.

It's infuriating that the company/game I used to legitimately love is being piloted by mentally-ill, weak ideologs, but we all saw it coming and it's the reason I aggressively picked up a massive library of old content because more and more people are going to realize what's happening, get fed up, and do the same thing I did...sucks for them because the material is going to get even more expensive than it already is.

That About nails it. 4e was definitely more video gamey. But I thought it lived up every class that didn't have spell. The only thing I didn't like was the hp. I liked rolling for hp and having drastically different amounts of hp per class. But that was an easy homebrew fix.

5e I still havnt played a single game. I've got a few books. Mainly cause I wanted them for lore. Got the players and dm guide. Just didn't care for it much.

One of my layers has a 5e game he plays in also. And he says how it's super different in combat

bigmark268 said:

One of my players has a 5e game he plays in also. And he says how it's super different in combat

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Yep, it's completely different.

I give my players a number of options when it comes to Hit Points and each option has its own pro/con.

1. Roll normally.
2. Roll, but do so splitting the die in half. For example - a Barbarian doesn't roll 1d12, they roll 2d6.
3. Take the average.


Lastly, if the player chooses to roll and they get less than the average I allow them to 'buy' average Hit Points for the level at the cost of 100gp x level. So it would cost a 6th level player 600gp to get the roll upgraded to average HP.

600 gold doesn't sound like much, but the economy in my game is scaled way down and while 600gp at that level isn't a fortune it's enough that making that choice takes some consideration.

Reroll 1's for hit points. I let them roll, and I roll also, but cover up the result with my hand.

They can choose to take their result or mine. I never tell them what I rolled if they take their own.

We always roll, but DM rolls and player rolls and take the higher.

Hoss said:

I still roll my HP die. Everyone else looks at me funny, especially when I roll a damned 2 and could have taken a 5 without rolling. It just doesn't seem right not rolling it.

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That was one of the things I've always liked. So homebrewed 3e hp rolls for 4e it was. Adds more spice. Cause a wizard should not have the sameish hp as a knight

We used to just roll. But then I also liked the whole advantage disadvantage thing from 5e. So I use that a lot now. It really excites people.

Oh and the borrowed the 5e crit a bit. 4e critical was max dam plus whatever your weapon also did. So for combats sake. I do a crit is 3x damage roll plus all mods and whatever else. And they all enjoy that chance of doing more then max dam. But that usually only happens s about 25% of thr time. Which isn't bad. And it's not like a ton more dam anyway if they did get 3 max rolls.

bigmark268 said:

That was one of the things I've always liked. So homebrewed 3e hp rolls for 4e it was. Adds more spice. Cause a wizard should not have the sameish hp as a knight

We used to just roll. But then I also liked the whole advantage disadvantage thing from 5e. So I use that a lot now. It really excites people.

Oh and the borrowed the 5e crit a bit. 4e critical was max dam plus whatever your weapon also did. So for combats sake. I do a crit is 3x damage roll plus all mods and whatever else. And they all enjoy that chance of doing more then max dam. But that usually only happens s about 25% of thr time. Which isn't bad. And it's not like a ton more dam anyway if they did get 3 max rolls.

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Speaking of critical hits I do enjoy a high damage critical but I only allow auto max damage if the creatures get the same rules. Get real nasty fighting stuff with 19-20 crit range early on.
Problem is in long campaigns people really start to pick weapons based on crit damage and not what they find fun. Not to mention the boss fights that can end first round.

Best games I have DM have been; always hit on crit, but use crit decks. Adds flavor without the insane highs and lows of insane crit damage.

The loudest complaints about 4E came from people who never played a single second of it. Which is not to say that there weren't unhappy people who actually played it, but I was managing a game store when 3rd edition came out and I remember more than a few people who went into the new edition with wildly negative opinions based on nothing more than the fact that it was a major change from 2nd. I swear if 2nd was still active and able to compete with 3rd when it came out then 3rd honestly might have flopped, or at least not have ended up being the runaway success it turned out to be.

If I ever go back on my now decades long swearing off of TTRPGs, it will be to run a good-aligned campaign where we purge the setting of all mixed-race hybrids. PELOR WILLS IT!

Gavinmad said:

The loudest complaints about 4E came from people who never played a single second of it. Which is not to say that there weren't unhappy people who actually played it, but I was managing a game store when 3rd edition came out and I remember more than a few people who went into the new edition with wildly negative opinions based on nothing more than the fact that it was a major change from 2nd. I swear if 2nd was still active and able to compete with 3rd when it came out then 3rd honestly might have flopped, or at least not have ended up being the runaway success it turned out to be.

If I ever go back on my now decades long swearing off of TTRPGs, it will be to run a good-aligned campaign where we purge the setting of all mixed-race hybrids. PELOR WILLS IT!

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Make sure to make the mixed-races population 0.2% of the world population to add an extra bit of spice to the game.

I’m not gonna lie you people complaining about wotc making shit woke drive me nuts. You don’t have to use that lore so who gives a fuck if they make it?

I’ve been a part of 5-6 different campaigns / one shots/ adventure paths in the last few years between DMing and as a player and it’s never effected us in any way.

Sure if you get a player who wants to be woke it could potentially cause an issue… but I imagine you aren’t inviting those people to the table so just let it go. Source material from before the change is still great and there’s no reason to boycott for “reasons”

Every time I see one of you throw a hissy fit about it I can’t imagine wanting to interact with your neckbeard asses let alone play with you.