The Elder Scrolls Online

Gecko_sl said:

Theoretically you could grind and it's a fuckton quicker than EQ, but I think the ADHD crowd has been spoiled by WOW and will gripe if leveling actually isn't instant or rushed.

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This never ceases to make me chuckle. Typically, you'll have some EQ diehard spout off with, "Man, I can't stand these quest based games! When are we going to go back to grinding, mob camps, and slower leveling curves?!". Then, in the very next sentence, they'll say, "Well, I think I'm done with this game. Sure, you can grind on mobs instead of questing, but it takes so much longer! Fuck that!".

Cinge_sl said:

I'm wary of people who just joined and only post in one thread , and the entire time giving excuses, reasons, answers to anyone with a negative thought.

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If you're referring to me, I was a lurker on the old FoH board back when it was the noows site. When that site went down, I didn't know you guys had moved to here until a couple months ago. ESO is the only MMO I am playing at the moment so that is why I only post in this thread.

BTW it doesn't matter to me whether people like this game or not. I happen to be having fun with it, but I would probably be voicing discontent like some of you are if I was experiencing the same problems you are. Fortunately for me that isn't the case.

This game could be improved by adding Collision Detection, removing the Quest Helper/Solver, and making enemies 2x-3x more difficult. As it stands today, the game offers zero challenge and the combat is not as fun as it needs to be. The end result is a MMO that just bores me to tears.

Orien_sl said:

Not to mention that the lack of any nameplate makes it fucking impossible to tell who is who without having to put your target cursor on every single player.

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I think that is a concession to the PVP community. Apparently having nameplates over your character can help give away your position.

Have they made any statement of when complete NDA coming down and letting everyone and anyone see and talk about content post early lvls ?

Bondurant_sl said:

If stats are softcapped class system can't really be open ended since you can't really specialize, you reach a cap and then get the 2nd best stat. It's terrible design wise, it forces people into clone-like builds.

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DAOC had soft caps. I think most RPGs do. You wanna be able to pump crit til you hit 100% crits or something? I'm sure the caps open up as you level, too. Why are you acting like the only way to specialize your character is through min/maxing stats? You can still do that, but there's so much more. How about skill loadouts? Gear choices? Race/base class. If you really can't see how robust the customization opportunities are, I don't know how to help you. There are some very fair complaints about this game: A little too quest hub feeling, ridiculous load times, etc., but character customization is not really a fair complaint.

With regard to load times: they are a lot better today, but still too long. I'm hoping they are purposefully limiting their server capacity so they can see what happens under heavy load; it is a stress test, after all.

I found something interesting - did any of you find any craft stations out in the wild? I found one where you could craft items for a special set of gear. Seemed pretty cool, but I needed to research some traits and stuff, and there's just no time for that this weekend.

PVP has been pretty damn fun this weekend (once you manage to get into cyrodiil.)

Rescorla_sl said:

I think that is a concession to the PVP community. Apparently having nameplates over your character can help give away your position.

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That is retarded beyond words. What is this, Call of Duty? If this is really their line of thinking then there is no hope for this game.

Next we'll be justifying people who RP walk.

Xaxius_sl said:

This game could be improved by adding Collision Detection, removing the Quest Helper/Solver, and making enemies 2x-3x more difficult. As it stands today, the game offers zero challenge and the combat is not as fun as it needs to be. The end result is a MMO that just bores me to tears.

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I have to disagree with all of these points.

Collision Detection would be a terrible idea based on the PVP configuration. Also, this is a zone based game, with many, many players in every area. No Ogre's blocking Lower Guk, please. Bad design back then.. It remains bad design today.

I'm assuming you never made it past level 10. Low level zones should not be akin to Dark Souls in an MMO. It is very easy to die at 12, especially to bosses in the zone. Rote monsters should not be super hard. I hope the higher bosses are tougher, but I'm not looking for silly hard.

The quest helper is fine. Running around for hours looking for a glass on the ground is just stupid. The game circles areas where objectives are needed, but there's plenty of discovery out there that isn't involved, and adding tedium to quests really adds nothing in my mind. In my two days I've encountered multiple nonstandard quests, also, and it looks like the team made things fun without being overtly tedious which some might enjoy, but fuck that noise.

Gecko_sl said:

Collision Detection would be a terrible idea based on the PVP configuration. Also, this is a zone based game, with many, many players in every area. No Ogre's blocking Lower Guk, please. Bad design back then.. It remains bad design today.

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So disable it for friendly PCs... it's been done before. The complete lack of collision detection in a action based combat MMO makes the combat feel weak. There are ways to solve your horrible example from 15 years ago and they could be applied here as well.

Gecko_sl said:

I'm assuming you never made it past level 10. Low level zones should not be akin to Dark Souls in an MMO. It is very easy to die at 12, especially to bosses in the zone. Rote monsters should not be super hard. I hope the higher bosses are tougher, but I'm not looking for silly hard.

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Your assumption is right, I'm level 9 trying to fight off this incredible amount of boredom to get to this mystical paradise of engaging gameplay. I'm going to guess that I'm completely right and this oasis in the desert you're promising doesn't exist. The reason I call out more difficult mobs is that, currently, there is no perceivable reason why I'm playing this game with other people. They all seem to be playing their own version of this crappy, non-engaging single player game. They only social engagement is when one our quest mobs is bugged and someone strikes up a conversation. This is MMO community in 2014.

Gecko_sl said:

The quest helper is fine. Running around for hours looking for a glass on the ground is just stupid. The game circles areas where objectives are needed, but there's plenty of discovery out there that isn't involved, and adding tedium to quests really adds nothing in my mind. In my two days I've encountered multiple nonstandard quests, also, and it looks like the team made things fun without being overtly tedious which some might enjoy, but fuck that noise.

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There is a balance. Right now, I feel like I'm being led around like a kindergartner whose never played a RPG before. It's dumb and it's boring. The Secret World was the last MMO I played that didn't treat me like a fucking retard. If you like that sort of thing, kudos to you but I'm willing to bet most people are looking for somerthing a bit more challenging than this snoozefest.

Gecko_sl said:

I have to disagree with all of these points.

Collision Detection would be a terrible idea based on the PVP configuration. Also, this is a zone based game, with many, many players in every area. No Ogre's blocking Lower Guk, please. Bad design back then.. It remains bad design today.

I'm assuming you never made it past level 10. Low level zones should not be akin to Dark Souls in an MMO. It is very easy to die at 12, especially to bosses in the zone. Rote monsters should not be super hard. I hope the higher bosses are tougher, but I'm not looking for silly hard.

The quest helper is fine. Running around for hours looking for a glass on the ground is just stupid. The game circles areas where objectives are needed, but there's plenty of discovery out there that isn't involved, and adding tedium to quests really adds nothing in my mind. In my two days I've encountered multiple nonstandard quests, also, and it looks like the team made things fun without being overtly tedious which some might enjoy, but fuck that noise.

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The quest helper makes the whole game about orienteering. It is completely boring. I am doing quests to level up without actually enjoying playing the game.

I made a new character to try a different build, and the first two zones where much more enjoyable when I explored and did the sidequests, found the skyshards etc, rather than just follow the arrow all of the time.

Blackwulf_sl said:

DAOC had soft caps. I think most RPGs do. You wanna be able to pump crit til you hit 100% crits or something? I'm sure the caps open up as you level, too. Why are you acting like the only way to specialize your character is through min/maxing stats? You can still do that, but there's so much more. How about skill loadouts? Gear choices? Race/base class. If you really can't see how robust the customization opportunities are, I don't know how to help you. There are some very fair complaints about this game: A little too quest hub feeling, ridiculous load times, etc., but character customization is not really a fair complaint.

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The problem with having soft caps is it forces you to spend your points in only one way, customization becoming then artificial : your choices don't really matter since everyone is held in a specific range of stats. Take your gear, for example : if you're already capping a stat, you're not gonna take more gear with this stat, you're gonna pick the second best. It trivializes choices. Would be funny how diminishing returns affect the game at max level but I bet while you can unlock almost everything skill wise, only a handful are class viable regarding specializations. To me TESO gameplay screams too much casual console gamer : minimal UI, no combat log / text, rigid animations and positioning, highway sign leveling, cooldown abilities based on your sta / magicka bars and GW2-like instanced RvR-only PvP where nothing matters but individual score. Again I don't like GW2-like instanced RvR based games because nowadays it's basically a "PvP for casuals" marketing ad where you jump in, kill a few lads, fire a few catapults, conquer a keep and log off to watch The Big Bang Theory.

Gecko_sl said:

I have to disagree with all of these points.

Collision Detection would be a terrible idea based on the PVP configuration. Also, this is a zone based game, with many, many players in every area. No Ogre's blocking Lower Guk, please. Bad design back then.. It remains bad design today.

I'm assuming you never made it past level 10. Low level zones should not be akin to Dark Souls in an MMO. It is very easy to die at 12, especially to bosses in the zone. Rote monsters should not be super hard. I hope the higher bosses are tougher, but I'm not looking for silly hard.

The quest helper is fine. Running around for hours looking for a glass on the ground is just stupid. The game circles areas where objectives are needed, but there's plenty of discovery out there that isn't involved, and adding tedium to quests really adds nothing in my mind. In my two days I've encountered multiple nonstandard quests, also, and it looks like the team made things fun without being overtly tedious which some might enjoy, but fuck that noise.

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Genuine question as you seem to be someone who likes it without going full shill either.

You think it will be reasonably stable at launch past the stress test levels ? I'm the type like Cinge who can't help but try most every mmo if just to see a different world and even enjoy the launch rush and so on. Enjoying EQL atm , but my PVP itch and combat itch needs to be scratched. My only concern for throwing down the money for a couple months to see this thing in launch action is will the mid-upper level content be in and not buggy as shit at launch.

I guess it's the still up NDA that has me wavering on even buying it for the couple months of new mmo stuff.

Kreugen_sl said:

That is retarded beyond words. What is this, Call of Duty? If this is really their line of thinking then there is no hope for this game.

Next we'll be justifying people who RP walk.

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That is just what some people said in guildchat. May also have something to do with mass PVP when there are a lot of players in one general vicinity. I know in a lot of MMOs I played we turned nameplates off in raids to improve framerate.

FYI Zenimax has their own version of The Vision just like McQuaid has. One thing the developers have said is they want a minimalist UI. Sounds like the nameplate design falls under that category. Probably a good idea to make nameplate display a configurable setting.

Xaxius_sl said:

Your assumption is right, I'm level 9 trying to fight off this incredible amount of boredom to get to this mystical paradise of engaging gameplay. I'm going to guess that I'm completely right and this oasis in the desert you're promising doesn't exist. The reason I call out more difficult mobs is that, currently, there is no perceivable reason why I'm playing this game with other people. They all seem to be playing their own version of this crappy, non-engaging single player game. They only social engagement is when one our quest mobs is bugged and someone strikes up a conversation. This is MMO community in 2014.

There is a balance. Right now, I feel like I'm being led around like a kindergartner whose never played a RPG before. It's dumb and it's boring. The Secret World was the last MMO I played that didn't treat me like a fucking retard. If you like that sort of thing, kudos to you but I'm willing to bet most people are looking for somerthing a bit more challenging than this snoozefest.

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What Oasis in the desert? It sounds like you hate the game, which is cool. I like the game because it has an Elder Scrolls feel, the crafting, the quests, guilds, gear, and skill systems. So far I'm enjoying exploring the world and the fact there really aren't quest hubs, but one just keeps going and finds new things to do, and those things don't require me to run around in a fucking boring fashion like other games looking for mundane shit.

There are plenty of quest mobs and guild encounters that will wipe the floor with me at level 12. I am playing the game to kill those critters which require help. Also, the game has a pretty robust PVP system, but again I've just done the entry level zerg thing, so I can't comment if it sucks or not

The entry level area was boring as fuck to me. I like the gameplay and the design. I respect if you don't, as this game is far different from TSW. Most of the people I saw around me were actually grouped, but the game definitely is single player friendly before 10, which makes sense. I liked it enough I'll probably buy it. I just don't think CD, uberizing rote mobs, or adding tedious quest shit in will make the game better.

Personally, I thought the combat in TSW was just fucking awful. To each their own.

All I know with this "megaserver" they better not have these queues.

Dahkoht_sl said:

You think it will be reasonably stable at launch past the stress test levels ?

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Based on the number of posters in this thread who had major problems like login queues, disconnects, zone loading times, etc with the weekend beta test, it sounds to me like there are still some kinks to work out with their single megaserver architecture.

Cinge_sl said:

All I know with this "megaserver" they better not have these queues.

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Yeah, that kinda defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I went out to dinner and came back to a 57 minute queue...

Dahkoht_sl said:

Genuine question as you seem to be someone who likes it without going full shill either.

You think it will be reasonably stable at launch past the stress test levels ? I'm the type like Cinge who can't help but try most every mmo if just to see a different world and even enjoy the launch rush and so on. Enjoying EQL atm , but my PVP itch and combat itch needs to be scratched. My only concern for throwing down the money for a couple months to see this thing in launch action is will the mid-upper level content be in and not buggy as shit at launch.

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To be completely honest, no, I don't think it'll be stable the first week. I think the game will sell well, but with all their new tech there will be a bunch of hiccups.

Right now even the low level stuff is really buggy. My guess is the game will be playable, but with a lot of glitches for at least a few months.

I personally don't mind, as long as it's mostly playable and we don't get another Tortage situation or DAOC Hibernia deal where the game is just completely empty 35+....

Flank_sl said:

The quest helper makes the whole game about orienteering. It is completely boring. I am doing quests to level up without actually enjoying playing the game.

I made a new character to try a different build, and the first two zones where much more enjoyable when I explored and did the sidequests, found the skyshards etc, rather than just follow the arrow all of the time.

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For any MMO with a built-in quest helper, I'd much prefer just marking the map with a circle to show general vicinity for the player to go search in versus putting an exact "x" marks the spot pinpoint on the map. I was playing WoW when the first player-made quest helper addon was made. Players were talking about how it was the best thing since sliced bread. I haven't played WoW in a few years but I think the quest helper is now an official part of the game and it appears most MMOs released since then have copied them on that.

I played TSW for a few weeks and their quest system copied some WoW's quest system (quest hubs, linear and on rails, collect bear asses) but they added some unique variations I haven't seen in any other MMO. Some quests by design required you to actually do research on the Internet outside the game in order to find the clues to advance the quest. Some of the info you had to find was obscure information. For every single one of these I had to give up and go to a spoiler site to find the answers. To Funcom's credit they did put a lot of thought into their quest system. As other have said though, their combat system sucked. Any future MMO that adopts TSW's quest system with a fun combat system will be a success.

Gecko_sl said:

Apples and oranges. Sony is milking people for alpha money currently for Landmark. Zenimax online is trying to keep the wraps for their game on for the majority of their playerbase, and as was mentioned this weekend appears to just be to stuff as many people as possible on a server to test things out.

Disconnect and lag today are much improved. The bugs and glitches are still there. Overall my experiences this weekend are a thousand times better than my brief play last year.

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Wanting a company to open up communications is hardly apples and oranges regardless of intention. Being in both the Landmark alpha and TESO internal testing I can assure you there is next to zero dev communication from one of them and I am not talking about dev to public communication. I'm talking about interacting with your testers.

I'm planning to play TESO for the AvA solely and only because my guild is playing but the PvE in the game for me was bland and downright boring. Sadly, gaining progression through AvA is also in a sad state but I'm hopeful that gets tweaked by launch.