The Elder Scrolls Online

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Youre still making shit up. 45% of the time? really? There were a few bugs in the beginning that wee pretty much all gone within the first few months.
lolwat? SWTOR didn't fix abilities not firing but putting you on GCD until a month ago. A bug people have raged about since beta and devs were just "DUURRRRR maybe it's just you!" Sure, it wasn't "45%" of the time, but it was pretty fucking frequent. I'd guess 1 in 5.
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,314
12,083
And yes, fanatic obsession isn't good, but sometimes "The truth" actually is the truth. World would be nicer if Ut was a crazy man talking crap, but knowing the real world, it isn't exactly a large leap to believe his rants and conspiracies of paid employees influencing message boards.As you said and seemingly agree with; anything is ok in free market capitalism to maximize profits.
Bingo.
 

Kedwyn

Silver Squire
3,915
80
I would agree with those that say developers hide tons of broken shit behind not broadcasting damage to players.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Since EQ1 didn't have a "Dungeon Crawl" experience, just what are you saying is going to return to ESO? Camping? Because that's what dungeons were. The last sentence of your gibberish (Which sounds like a developer who never fucking played EQ but read an article about it after 6 expansions) sounds like an answer to a fan on an IGN interview.

All of the popular dungeons all the way through as far as I can remember (I quit during Planes of Power) were all camped out around various rare spawns. XP pulls came from the scripted pathing trash mobs and static trash mobs and place holders for the named. Everyone was camped in one spot while the puller went to grab the mobs and bring them back to the camp location. No one moved a fucking inch unless they ran back to zone in to log out of the game, or were moving camps to a more popular spot. Out of curiousity, just how the fuck do you call this dungeon crawling? You don't know jack fucking shit about EQ1 do you?

DAOC tried to correct this with BAF, an anti camp penalty if the group didn't move around - which would then just break down to a circuit of sorts in a very similar camp routine - just with a predetermined path around a certain area of the dungeon. (For instance, Trows in Spindehalla was an area where you could navigate the XP Penalty, and stay in a tight circumference.But that wasn't crawling either. You were in the same location.

Dungeon crawling doesn't exist. So don't throw around your latest buzzword like it exists in your game. And christ, you are a developer for God's sake. Are you related to Lisa Boelyn?
Dude you've got some major psychological issues. Did those 16 hour gaming sessions in EQ1 cause you permanent mental damage?

Anyone who played EQ1 should know that whether you were camping in one spot or moving thru a dungeon via a crawl at some point you were faced with large pulls where the group had to be on their toes or there was a good chance they would wipe. BTW since you quit in PoP once again you comment on shit you have no clue about. As more expansions were released and the population spread out, dungeons weren't near as crowded as they used to be which allowed you to dungeon crawl versus sitting in one spot camping. The entire LDoN expansion introduced instanced dungeons to EQ1 which meant all of that content was dungeon crawling.

You're #1 problem when it comes to communicating with other human beings is the complete inability to admit that what you perceive to be "The Truth" is just your fucked up opinion which others don't necessarily always agree with (which is likely a positive sign that they aren't batshit crazy).
 

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
6,662
4,506
Anyone who played EQ1 should know that whether you were camping in one spot or moving thru a dungeon via a crawl at some point you were faced with large pulls where the group had to be on their toes or there was a good chance they would wipe.
Umm No, because that's what the Bard/Monk were for.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Having no way to hold anyone accountable in TOR helped make my comeback last less than a month. It's all fine until the wipes start. I'd rather be able to deal with the problem (first through instruction, then through removal) than "oh well we lose, /disband and there goes our lockout for the week"
FYI SWTOR's combat log only shows your own personal damage/healing. However, a third party parser was created that allows everyone who has that parser to send their combat log to a central host and display the raid's damage meters to everyone who was running the parser. I assume a similar parser will eventually be written for ESO that hardcore raiding guilds can use.
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,314
12,083
Anyone who played EQ1 should know that whether you were camping in one spot or moving thru a dungeon via a crawl at some point you were faced with large pulls where the group had to be on their toes or there was a good chance they would wipe.
Are you getting confused with raiding? Because I could see where you would consider that a crawl. For instance, hopping from Boss to Boss in NTOV while killing trash. Unfortunately, there is no raiding in ESO - so I assumed you really weren't comparing it to an entirely different play option.

As more expansions were released and the population spread out, dungeons weren't near as crowded as they used to be which allowed you to dungeon crawl versus sitting in one spot camping.
I think it's time you learn how the game was instead of reading it from an after study written by a peer of yours that never played it either. The named spawn/placeholder system was well in place after I left even with 4 expansions at that time. Itdidn't matterabout server population or an empty dungeon because if you were of that level range for that dungeon you went to a specific spot andstillsat on your ass. (Whichever named drop the loot you wanted) With the added benefit of more named being pulled within the largest range ofthat camp.There wasn't a fucking group that would go in here and just start all moving around a zone. It was too dangerous. Why? Because the engine was based off a fucking tank simulator without a z-axis. Pets were usually even stowed as a result. Remember the Bar in unrest? (Course you don't. You never played the fucking game) One small turn and you brought the entire house to the zone line. It was like that in the Altar, Ghost room, Bar, Kitchen, Christ, even outside if you got too close you would aggro 2nd floor mobs and pull them down on the yard. It was like this in any Z-Axis design. Everyone knew this. So the players found a way to circumvent it. Hence why there wasn't any dungeon crawling in the game. (Camping, at the time also being the player made distinction for overpopulated dungeons)

Now, if you want to start talking about mudflation and seeing some level 70 warrior go through TOFS for fun, which was about the closest EQ design ever got to having a dungeon crawl (But then even the floors were camped, so it didn't matter - for instance, the wedding floor and the ring of engagement the groom dropped) that would be a really horseshit opinion. "Hey guys I went through an out-leveled dungeon by myself and crawled through it killing everything in 15 minutes".

The problem with your train of thought is you are posting as if you never played the thing and reading an instruction manual of how it was supposed to be.

But none of that matters because you are somehow comparing what you read as a design method, and how it really played out. And that's a major problem with about half of you guys. You never have the foresight to understand how it will play out when the player hits it and starts manipulating the world.
 

Recalcitrant_sl

shitlord
190
0
Anyone who played EQ1 should know that whether you were camping in one spot or moving thru a dungeon via a crawl at some point you were faced with large pulls where the group had to be on their toes or there was a good chance they would wipe. BTW since you quit in PoP once again you comment on shit you have no clue about. As more expansions were released and the population spread out, dungeons weren't near as crowded as they used to be which allowed you to dungeon crawl versus sitting in one spot camping. The entire LDoN expansion introduced instanced dungeons to EQ1 which meant all of that content was dungeon crawling.
The group only had to be on their toes if the puller sucked. And since you were a bard...

I'm sorry, but unless people were forced to crawl for a single progression mission, no one did. There's a reason why LDoN was a huge failure of an EQ1 expansion: you not only had to crawl but you had to do it over and over again in the same missions with no alternative progression. The only time people "crawled" in later expansions was when instanced content was the best experience and didn't respawn such as TBS missions- and even then there were static versions of the zones that undergeared people camped instead. This was especially true for undergeared players when they introduced group gear progression where you had to farm pieces from static zones, for example Crystallos in the SoF expansion.
 

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
6,662
4,506
The game was super simple and required next to no skill. Seems we finally agree on that. Don't try using the mouth breathers who would train zone lines as a measuring stick for difficulty.
 

Droigan

Trakanon Raider
2,502
1,169
You know I love first person but I couldn't use it and heal. There was too much spacial judging. I had to have a 360 degree view of the group.
frown.png


I'd take first person slower combat any day of the week over action oriented third person. Shame.

@EQ dungeon crawling, that happened in two ways
1) You massively outleveled an abandoned old zone dungeon and soloed it for start to finish/last boss due to being bored.
2) You and some friends decided to do an abandoned old zone dungeon for fun, because you were bored or all other "dungeon" camp spots were taken. Note: Never once joined a pug doing this and never saw anyone look for a group "doing" a dungeon either. It was something you did with friends as it was very ineffective in progression compared to camping spots with known loot spawns.

The rest was "get to point X in zone Y". You enter zone, call camp check, and if not taken, you call it, then run to that spot while trying not to train any people camping in the way to that spot. This was the way people played from when I started (99) to when I left (04). Closest thing EQ had to actual dungeon crawls was when raiding as you usually traversed a larger part of the zone to trigger various events. Being part of a 72+ person raid made raids into zerg mode though instead of any sense of crawling a dungeon. I certainly never regarded raiding as crawling a dungeon.

Also, personally I think instances suck (even though I can appreciate the bigger scripted events they can contain). I did not like LDoN one bit.
 

Pyksel

Rasterizing . . .
840
284
Since I do not count, this is another closed beta testers opinion.



So basically, if you are playing with Tuco and want to give it a go simply for AvA sake, for a month, it won't last long, but that may be worth $60 for some folks. With all the technical issues they are having with Megaserver, the problem here though is that people just might give up even trying to log in. This shit won't be fixed by launch. So those joining for AvA should be wary that by the time they get there, logged in and all the issues fixed, 60% of the people in your guild just gave up anyway and wrote it off.
I was very specific in what I stated in that guilds specifically geared for AvA, not just Tuco's. There are a large number of guilds that will be playing for the AvA so there's no need to twist my words to further supplement your overly vitriolic position. I agree the game has quite a few problems but I'm not going to sit here and try to speculate where I think it mght be post launch because I have no clue. The lack of MMO options currently on the market coupled with the wildly varying opinions on the game plus the growing interest of other AvA based guilds during testing are precisely the reasons we're playing it. Do we expect more than 3 months worth of fun? Absolutely not and hopefully by that time there will be other games out to play or test.

Finally, when did $45 equate to $60?? If you're not searching for the best deals in this market by now then you're really doing yourself a disservice.
 

Pyksel

Rasterizing . . .
840
284
I would agree with those that say developers hide tons of broken shit behind not broadcasting damage to players.
I could not agree more with this and want to add that it's not just damage but most combat related events too.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Are you getting confused with raiding? Because I could see where you would consider that a crawl. For instance, hopping from Boss to Boss in NTOV while killing trash. Unfortunately, there is no raiding in ESO - so I assumed you really weren't comparing it to an entirely different play option.



I think it's time you learn how the game was instead of reading it from an after study written by a peer of yours that never played it either. The named spawn/placeholder system was well in place after I left even with 4 expansions at that time. Itdidn't matterabout server population or an empty dungeon because if you were of that level range for that dungeon you went to a specific spot andstillsat on your ass. (Whichever named drop the loot you wanted) With the added benefit of more named being pulled within the largest range ofthat camp.There wasn't a fucking group that would go in here and just start all moving around a zone. It was too dangerous. Why? Because the engine was based off a fucking tank simulator without a z-axis. Pets were usually even stowed as a result. Remember the Bar in unrest? (Course you don't. You never played the fucking game) One small turn and you brought the entire house to the zone line. It was like that in the Altar, Ghost room, Bar, Kitchen, Christ, even outside if you got too close you would aggro 2nd floor mobs and pull them down on the yard. It was like this in any Z-Axis design. Everyone knew this. So the players found a way to circumvent it. Hence why there wasn't any dungeon crawling in the game. (Camping, at the time also being the player made distinction for overpopulated dungeons)

Now, if you want to start talking about mudflation and seeing some level 70 warrior go through TOFS for fun, which was about the closest EQ design ever got to having a dungeon crawl (But then even the floors were camped, so it didn't matter - for instance, the wedding floor and the ring of engagement the groom dropped) that would be a really horseshit opinion. "Hey guys I went through an out-leveled dungeon by myself and crawled through it killing everything in 15 minutes".

The problem with your train of thought is you are posting as if you never played the thing and reading an instruction manual of how it was supposed to be.

But none of that matters because you are somehow comparing what you read as a design method, and how it really played out. And that's a major problem with about half of you guys. You never have the foresight to understand how it will play out when the player hits it and starts manipulating the world.
LOL so lets recap the past couple of days. As one of the few people here in the closed beta, I was able to figure out Utnayan was lying about him being in the closed beta because he made some assertions that anyone with closed beta access would know was incorrect. Instead of admitting he was lying, Utnayan doubled down and accused me of being an employee of Zenimax. When other closed beta testers confirmed I was correct, he ignored them and continued to insist I was a developer for Zenimax. When Grave (who apparently used to work for 38Studios) posted a comment, Utnayan somehow became convinced that Grave and myself were the same person and is now even more firmly convinced I work for Zenimax.

Today after someone posted a media video of the first three dungeons, I made a comment that dungeon crawling in ESO reminded me of the group dynamic in EQ1 dungeons. Strictly my opinion which only matters to me but apparently drives some people even more batshit crazy because it could be interpreted as a favorable comparison of ESO to EQ1.

Now in addition to being a developer for Zenimax, accused of being the same person as Grave posting under an alt user account, now I am lying about having played EQ1 (for 6 years total until WoW came out). All of this for exposing Utnayan as a lying fraud.
 

Pyksel

Rasterizing . . .
840
284
LOL so lets recap the past couple of days. As one of the few people here in the closed beta, I was able to figure out Utnayan was lying about him being in the closed beta because he made some assertions that anyone with closed beta access would know was incorrect. Instead of admitting he was lying, Utnayan doubled down and accused me of being an employee of Zenimax. When other closed beta testers confirmed I was correct, he ignored them and continued to insist I was a developer for Zenimax. When Grave (who apparently used to work for 38Studios) posted a comment, Utnayan somehow became convinced that Grave and myself were the same person and is now even more firmly convinced I work for Zenimax.

Today after someone posted a media video of the first three dungeons, I made a comment that dungeon crawling in ESO reminded me of the group dynamic in EQ1 dungeons. Strictly my opinion which only matters to me but apparently drives some people even more batshit crazy because it could be interpreted as a favorable comparison of ESO to EQ1.

Now in addition to being a developer for Zenimax, accused of being the same person as Grave posting under an alt user account, now I am lying about having played EQ1 (for 6 years total until WoW came out). All of this for exposing Utnayan as a lying fraud.
It really does no good singling him out in an attempt to humble him. As a matter of fact it just makes things worse and the best thing you can do is state your facts or your opinions and ignore his ramblings.
 

Bondurant

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,837
4,786
LOL so lets recap the past couple of days. As one of the few people here in the closed beta, I was able to figure out Utnayan was lying about him being in the closed beta because he made some assertions that anyone with closed beta access would know was incorrect. Instead of admitting he was lying, Utnayan doubled down and accused me of being an employee of Zenimax. When other closed beta testers confirmed I was correct, he ignored them and continued to insist I was a developer for Zenimax. When Grave (who apparently used to work for 38Studios) posted a comment, Utnayan somehow became convinced that Grave and myself were the same person and is now even more firmly convinced I work for Zenimax.

Today after someone posted a media video of the first three dungeons, I made a comment that dungeon crawling in ESO reminded me of the group dynamic in EQ1 dungeons. Strictly my opinion which only matters to me but apparently drives some people even more batshit crazy because it could be interpreted as a favorable comparison of ESO to EQ1.

Now in addition to being a developer for Zenimax, accused of being the same person as Grave posting under an alt user account, now I am lying about having played EQ1 (for 6 years total until WoW came out). All of this for exposing Utnayan as a lying fraud.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
 

Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
frown.png


I'd take first person slower combat any day of the week over action oriented third person. Shame.

@EQ dungeon crawling, that happened in two ways
1) You massively outleveled an abandoned old zone dungeon and soloed it for start to finish/last boss due to being bored.
2) You and some friends decided to do an abandoned old zone dungeon for fun, because you were bored or all other "dungeon" camp spots were taken. Note: Never once joined a pug doing this and never saw anyone look for a group "doing" a dungeon either. It was something you did with friends as it was very ineffective in progression compared to camping spots with known loot spawns.

The rest was "get to point X in zone Y". You enter zone, call camp check, and if not taken, you call it, then run to that spot while trying not to train any people camping in the way to that spot. This was the way people played from when I started (99) to when I left (04). Closest thing EQ had to actual dungeon crawls was when raiding as you usually traversed a larger part of the zone to trigger various events. Being part of a 72+ person raid made raids into zerg mode though instead of any sense of crawling a dungeon. I certainly never regarded raiding as crawling a dungeon.

Also, personally I think instances suck (even though I can appreciate the bigger scripted events they can contain). I did not like LDoN one bit.
To each his own. I liked LDoN because it was instanced and eliminated the group camping in one spot. As a bard puller, I was highly sought out for the hard mode LDoNs thanks to Fading Memories pulling. Its been over 10 years but I recall Gates of Discord and Omens of War also having group instances.