The Elder Scrolls Online

Tuco_sl said:

Also Utnayan, consider this your last warning, as we get closer to release and this thread heats up stop posting giant walls of text with the same regurgitated shit we have all known for months. You've been consistently shown as a fraud and a liar and have no credibility, so stop repeating stuff we know and stop throwing darts.

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Well he did predict that we won't be able to log in at launch. So if that one comes true I think we're all going to be eating a lot of crow.

Jaybee_sl said:

Well he did predict that we won't be able to log in at launch. So if that one comes true I think we're all going to be eating a lot of crow.

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Log in issues? On a MMO? *gasp*

Seriously though, regardless of what Ut says or anyone else, I think the game has some hurdles. Just like any other MMO they'll have to show me improvements and progression with the first couple of months or it will be the same old song and dance. I don't know how many MMO's have 2-3 patches or just addressing a handful of quality of life decisions to keep the game going beyond that first 1-3 months.

I may have to get the game just because the PvP but expectations are pretty low.

Rhinohelix_sl said:

This is a fair criticism overall, although I think in the example you mention, the guy says that the only reason he didn't succumb to the spider bites like his companions was that he was Argonian, and you run through the tomb the isle is named for in the quest finale.

I thought ZO had someone who has acting as the "script coordinator" for lore? If not, we can hope that they correct the errors over time, and that they don't prequel this up by allowing the stand-alone TES games ignore the compromises made for the MMO.

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Ah I forgot about that part(and I didn't get to that quest finale regarding the naming of the isle). Regardless, I like the lore a lot but I'm not a die hard nerd that would refuse to play because of these changes (though I may have made it sound like it). I can live with lore changes in a "rebooted Star Trek vs Original Star Trek" fashion.

I think I could enjoy this game casually in a few months with some patches and wrinkles get ironed out. Another reason to wait would be guides for class builds because I like exploring and sightseeing more than anything. Once there are established, optimal builds I'll find one that lets me burn through content so I can see the sights. I work 50-60 hours and live out of a hotel and suitcase mon-fri, so spending an MMO beta/launch figuring things out is probably why I found my experience to be boring, tedious, and frustrating; once there are L2P guides on the web for filthy casuals like myself I'm sure my mood on the game will change.

Tuco_sl said:

My prediction for how it's going to go down:
All the organized PVP guilds will talk to each other to get on the same campaign (on different sides. The warfare PVP community is pretty well connected and we all know each other for better or worse). In two weeks one side will have pretty much trounced the other. The fact that most people would rather queue up for an open world fight where they are camping the enemy spawn instead of being camped will guarantee this.

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Changing campaigns costs enough alliance points that your average hour or two a day player won't have enough to move often. If people move their home campaign too much, then it gets more expensive; easy fix. If the guilds that have been around for a while get a well-populated map then the zerg will scramble it every day at peak traffic. If they don't, then anybody who blunders into their campaign will spam lfg until they get a pickup or get slotted to go take resources.

For people to get annoyed with the ancient pro guilds steamrolling them, they'd have to be capable of figuring out that's happening. After last beta session it's hard not to be cynical about the zergtards. I'm not sure they'll figure out much of anything going on behind the scenes if it's not pointed out to them, and even then they'll argue about it. Whether they lose too much will have more to do with timing than anything else. Join a campaign when your alliance is maxed out, and you got a fight. Jump into one that only has your alliance on board when you're not, and you get run over.

For everything beyond that, they'll learn. Eventually.

Ukerric_sl said:

Exactly. I might have been tempted to give it a try, but by the time it's going to go F2P, it's going to be empty as well, which means I'm not going to check it then, which means a pass.

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This, plus anyone still around and playing will have such a lockdown on Cyrodil that if you join the 'winning' faction, you'll be bored out of your skull and if you join the 'losing factions', you'll be hunted like a mutant in X-men.

Still, I'm going to give it a F2P shot.. why not? If the game is still as shitty as UT says it is now, then we'll know he was right and that it was far worse than we all believed is was other than just the people saying 'It's not a bad game..."

But no way I'm paying $60, a sub and a cash shop just to automatically get fucklocked out of a race from the get-go. That shit is insane and I'm not backing that level of wallet-gouging. I wouldn't do that for $30.

Blackwulf_sl said:

I was one of those fanboys that abandoned SWTOR after a few months. I'm pretty sure that ESO won't have the same problem as SWTOR for me because of 1 simple thing:

Cyrodiil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ilum

We were promised DAOC-like world pvp on Ilum. LOL.

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Who believe SWTOR would be a "DAOC like" world with only two factions? No one is that dumb.

The difference was SWTOR wasn't built on the premise of Ilum.. the game was built on a premise of a story. And they did tell that story.. many times, over and over, in different ways, until people said "Turn that fucking voice acting off". On what they said they were going to deliver and pushed repeatedly was voice acting and a 'world'. Don't know too many people who said they didn't get that.

Anyone going in there and expecting a PvP focused game.. dunno. Everyone I know wanted and expected KOTOR.

Conversely, with the guy Firor who came from DAOC pushing this game, that's all anyone talked about. When he wasn't even working during the Warhammer years, I remember reading a lot of forums saying "I can't WAIT til Matt does something" or "I wish they'd give this game to Matt" or "Why didn't they bring in Matt to work on Warhammer? It would be awesome then." Well, now we don't have to wait and this game was sold as a PvP/RvR game so if this fails it won't fail because the PvE sucked or the textures were off or the draw wasn't right.. it's gonna live or die by how good the PvP is.

That's all UT can really hang his hat on imo, and if that does suck it almost validates everything he's been going nuts about so far.

I havent played beta since very early. Hows this shaping up?

Worth picking up for pvp madness?

Urlithani_sl said:

I only played the open beta weekends since the first one took place. Every time I played it, ESO made me either want to play Skyrim or re-sub to another MMO again. The game felt stuck between two worlds for me, and I couldn't embrace it as its own game.

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haha some of the shit people have mod'd into skyrim is absolutely nuts, these graphical mods this guy is working on makes me wanna reinstall
Skyrim - a set on Flickr

LOOK AT THOSE BUTTS! i bet they jiggle real fine too

I'm wishing we could get more information about adventure zones. The impression that I get from what little has leaked by rumor here and there is, picture Velius raid zones the size of Skyrim. Cyrodiil isn't all there is to ESO; it's just the most interesting part we've seen so far.

If it turns out they're tight lipped about adventure zones because they're undeveloped and the rumors are false, I'll pop a blood vessel. That's their chance at longevity, and if they screw it up then the F2P shitposts will turn out to be prophesy.

signati_sl said:

Changing campaigns costs enough alliance points that your average hour or two a day player won't have enough to move often. If people move their home campaign too much, then it gets more expensive; easy fix. If the guilds that have been around for a while get a well-populated map then the zerg will scramble it every day at peak traffic. If they don't, then anybody who blunders into their campaign will spam lfg until they get a pickup or get slotted to go take resources.

For people to get annoyed with the ancient pro guilds steamrolling them, they'd have to be capable of figuring out that's happening. After last beta session it's hard not to be cynical about the zergtards. I'm not sure they'll figure out much of anything going on behind the scenes if it's not pointed out to them, and even then they'll argue about it. Whether they lose too much will have more to do with timing than anything else. Join a campaign when your alliance is maxed out, and you got a fight. Jump into one that only has your alliance on board when you're not, and you get run over.

For everything beyond that, they'll learn. Eventually.

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Seeing the amount of 'ifs' in your post is trouble, especially if you're trying to explain how something works with regards to PvP. Not a criticism, just a worry.

I don't even believe in today's day/age that PvP on this kind of scale is even possible anymore but makers just haven't realized it. There's a sweet spot that has to be met regarding not only class balance (don't want an alliance full of Brightwizards) but also with factions. Two are hard enough to balance but three can be really tricky.

I think the reason why DAOC worked was because (I think) it started out as a relatively small game and grew while the factions got a chance to be established. Back in those mmo times there weren't a lot of PvP mmo games to begin with and with the few that were around there was real faction pride where people wouldn't even think of bolting to another side overall. You pretty much stayed on whatever side you rolled, good or bad and took your lumps. If you were leveling and at 30, you didn't look at a world map, see your side getting ripped to shreds and say"Hmm.. think I'll reroll now and go to the other side".That's pretty common today.. leveling is so easy people just stop dead in their tracks and go to the strong side.

Nowadays the problem is when you launch a major title like ESO, it's huge and they make an effort to get anyone and everyone to play but those people don't respect any type of PvP decorum. There are a lot of posters here who remember when zergs were first started and how at the time, even though it was effective, they called it out for being what it was.. cheap steamroll shit. But those guilds were few and far between and usually got beat by the organized/skilled players.

There's been a whole generation of player that grew up thinking that zerg=pvp since, and that's why PvP on a ESO is hard to maintain. Why it failed in Warhammer. Why it failed in GW2. Why it would have failed in TOR (if Ilum worked).

I didn't mean that to sound like a 'Get Off My Lawn' rant, but I really think the PvP mmo is will die because the player changed and not the game. If the genre is to do well, it has to change with the type of player we have now (zerg) and it hasn't done that.

Why didn't they just make this a single player game with multi-player adventure dungeons people could connect to privately or on public servers, and with the huge PvP zone people could connect to. Seems like they spent a ton of money to just end up with the equivalent of a lobby anyhow. And now they need a sub to justify it, and I know I'm not going to give this shit a sub, when I would certainly give it a box sale, and maybe even a half-sub just to access the 'persistant' pvp world.

Utnayan_sl said:

In fact, I am willing to put a little wager on it. If I win, you get the fuck off this forum and never mod again. If I lose, I'll high tail it out of here.

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zzeris_sl said:

Nothing really validates Ut right now. His kind of prescience is the easiest one to fake.

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Watch out dude, he will call you a shill!

Btw, who do I talk to about getting some of this fat cash that Utnayan claims is going out to everyone that says anything positive about TESO? Or did Draegan get it all already?

Jackdaddio_sl said:

Who believe SWTOR would be a "DAOC like" world with only two factions? No one is that dumb.

The difference was SWTOR wasn't built on the premise of Ilum.. the game was built on a premise of a story. And they did tell that story.. many times, over and over, in different ways, until people said "Turn that fucking voice acting off". On what they said they were going to deliver and pushed repeatedly was voice acting and a 'world'. Don't know too many people who said they didn't get that.

Anyone going in there and expecting a PvP focused game.. dunno. Everyone I know wanted and expected KOTOR.

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I was speaking personally - as in my (and my guild's) reason for leaving. They DID make a lot of promises in interviews leading up to release about Ilum, and none of it was delivered. The instanced battle matches couldn't keep my guild's interest - you can only play Huttball so many times...

Jackdaddio_sl said:

Conversely, with the guy Firor who came from DAOC pushing this game, that's all anyone talked about. When he wasn't even working during the Warhammer years, I remember reading a lot of forums saying "I can't WAIT til Matt does something" or "I wish they'd give this game to Matt" or "Why didn't they bring in Matt to work on Warhammer? It would be awesome then."

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I'm pretty sure Firor was long gone before Mythic did Warhammer - he was already over at Zenimax building his team for ESO.

khalid_sl said:

Btw, who do I talk to about getting some of this fat cash that Utnayan claims is going out to everyone that says anything positive about TESO? Or did Draegan get it all already?

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I'm currently on my yacht, the SS Shill.

Utnayan_sl said:

I will do that for you so the shills can sell the game. I know you are concerned about web hits, developers playing nice with Draegen for Junkies revenue.



That, however, is absolute horseshit. And you'll see soon enough.

In fact, I am willing to put a little wager on it. If I win, you get the fuck off this forum and never mod again. If I lose, I'll high tail it out of here.

You lay any type of groundwork you deem fit. From itemization, to combat issues, to server technology, to F2P in the summer.

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Too bad you didn't take my wager on when the NDA would be lifted.

BTW since you have already been proven a liar in regards to the existence of addons, how is Tuco calling you a liar horseshit? The evidence all points to you having lied about being in the closed beta as well but since the NDA has been lifted there is plenty of stuff out there for you to plagiarize so that you can pretend you have known about it for a long time. BTW what is the official name of the closed beta testing community? That is a softball question that probably doesn't require access to the closed beta to know the answer to.

F2P in the summer is guaranteed win for tuco...

It won't be until next year.