The Elder Scrolls Online

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Droigan

Trakanon Raider
2,575
1,260
Utnayan_sl said:
With sales, and an average sell sale around 40-45 with GMG, it will need to push around 3-3.5 million boxes to recoup that.
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Does that total 3.5 number include the eventual sales for the console version as well?

If so, I think this game will sell that fairly easily. Retention long term is a problem, but if sales alone in the 3.5 million number will put them in the black, and things beyond that is a bonus. Then I think they will earn back the money + money spent on server/post launch developing cost to last a good few months.

See no reason why this game won't be as successful as SWTOR as a F2P down the line. Initial box sales will give the mmo a large population that will probably all come back at some point if it goes F2P even if they only stay for a few months during the sub model. I don't play FF 14 anymore, but I would reinstall it if it went F2P.

I think this game will be a success in terms of money, but I also don't think it will live up to the Elder Scrolls name. It might evolve into a great PvP game, but that has never been something you expect from the franchise name. For someone like me who is 99% PvE, it doesn't feel right. In Elder Scrolls games, you often find yourself within the first hour in the middle of the map, with exploration available in 360 degrees. A wast world to explore at your choice. You do not start at the bottom of an area and progress upwards until a new map area unlocks and you progress upwards, until a new zone and you explore ....

Quests in Elder Scrolls games usually send you every which way from the very start. Then on the path to those quests, you get new quests, and that leads to more quests, to the point where you find yourself nowhere near the original quest you set out to do. In mmos that is something that may happen in later levels. Around halfway, you start getting to larger areas with larger level composition. Initially zones are usually 1-5, 5-10, 10-15, but later they usually evolve to 20-35, 25-40, 30-45 and so on. Mixing the zones so you get "larger" quests that can overlay zones instead of the early ones who can be completed in close proximity of their quest giver.

Elder Scroll games progress very different from the standard PvE mmo formula. In order to get that same large level range and non linear progress, you need to enter Cyrodil and engage in PvP. I don't think anyone here would have guessed "Elder Scrolls Online!!!!" if the development of this game was a secret and one of the PvP videos posted lately was leaked. Only thing that would give that away would be the UI stat bars and maybe character models.

TL;DR
This game will be successful financially, but disappointing to fans expecting Elder Scrolls.
 
Selix

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
Quaid_sl said:
In almost any industry 50% of the work is done in the last 10% of time before a deadline.
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That is how it is supposed to work. Rarely can the interacting elements of any complex project be fully completed separately.
 
Dr Neir

Dr Neir

Trakanon Raider
832
1,505
Creslin_sl said:
They still aren't as good as they used to be. Compare CiV to Civ4. Or Rome 2 to Medieval 2. They all look flashier but offer far less substance than the older games did. Ya you can still get 100 hours out of them, but those used to be genres that were good for far more than that.
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You mean EA hasnt bought up this IP yet and turned it into a FPS?
 
Selix

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
Utnayan_sl said:
And that bar gets lowered every time a game like this is made and we buy it. (I am just as guilty)
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I don't think this game from what I've seen is anywhere close as bad as FFXIV was on release and that's as low as the bar is going to get for me.
 
Vask

Vask

Molten Core Raider
31
0
Bondurant_sl said:
Yeah I know it's fake, thank you very much.
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I know you do, I was just linking the source.
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Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,526
12,567
Rescorla_sl said:
Considering you haven't gotten to experience the most recent changes to the physics engine, how would you know anything about how combat is currently functioning?
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You are so fucking full of shit!

There haven't been * ANY * changes to the physics engine other than adding some collision and has absolutely * NO * Bearing... * NONE * on the shitty combat in this game. And anyone worth a shit in game development knows this doesn't fucking change 5-6 weeks from launch... For Fuck's sake, not even a few * YEARS * before launch.

Get off this fucking forum you lying fucking con artist.
 
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signati_sl

shitlord
102
0
Did Utnayan just become a cartoon? That was just so caricatured and over the top that it's hard to imagine a real, non-fiction person typing that.

Well done! An amazing performance.
 
Blackwulf

Blackwulf

N00b
999
18
Utnayan_sl said:
You are so fucking full of shit!

There haven't been * ANY * changes to the physics engine other than adding some collision and has absolutely * NO * Bearing... * NONE * on the shitty combat in this game. And anyone worth a shit in game development knows this doesn't fucking change 5-6 weeks from launch... For Fuck's sake, not even a few * YEARS * before launch.

Get off this fucking forum you lying fucking con artist.
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Take a deep breath, bud. It's gonna be okay. Actually, a lot of people think the combat is fun already. I can imagine collision detection via the Havok engine will help improve the weightiness complaints from some people.
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
2,233
0
Utnayan_sl said:
You are so fucking full of shit!

There haven't been * ANY * changes to the physics engine other than adding some collision and has absolutely * NO * Bearing... * NONE * on the shitty combat in this game. And anyone worth a shit in game development knows this doesn't fucking change 5-6 weeks from launch... For Fuck's sake, not even a few * YEARS * before launch.

Get off this fucking forum you lying fucking con artist.
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Someone forgot to take their Zanax today. Better double the suicide watch after this latest patch. I guess its good for the ESO players that Paul Sage doesn't come to you for advice on how to develop a MMO.

The players who play in 1st person say the collision detection makes a big improvement on combat. I play in 3rd person myself but will switch over and see the differences for myself.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,526
12,567
Rescorla_sl said:
Someone forgot to take their Zanax today. Better double the suicide watch after this latest patch. I guess its good for the ESO players that Paul Sage doesn't come to you for advice on how to develop a MMO.

The players who play in 1st person say the collision detection makes a big improvement on combat. I play in 3rd person myself but will switch over and see the differences for myself.
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It doesn't make one iota of difference to the tab target action layer of the combat system, and you fucking know it. * Nor * the responsiveness of the UI action bars and action firing.

* None *

Next you are probably going to tell everyone an animation pass is coming.
rolleyes.png
 
moontayle

moontayle

Golden Squire
4,302
165
*cough* He does have a point, ranting aside.

I was a part of the behind the scenes process on the Combat Update that hit SWG after JtL launched. Even then it was mostly an attempt to simplify the way combat worked and reign in some of the results of the emergent gameplay that had come as a result of extremely dedicated crafters. Did you know that it was possible to craft a set of armor that mitigated 99.9% of the damage dealt to you? Sure, it took a lot of time and patience due to the nature of the shifting resource system, but it was done and the devs never even saw it coming. But even with the CU, the changes made were integrated into the system that already existed. From the time I saw the bullet points on what they intended to do and when it hit the test server was about 6 months. To add on to an existing system. (note: I can't speak to the NGE, I had moved on by that point)

Ut's point is that it's way too late in the game for ZO to shift gears on combat, and that in the 6 weeks that remain before release it's not going to happen, even if they did a 180-degree turn and focused entirely on ironing out the bugs. Now, unlike Ut I can understand how some people can "get used" to the system, but getting used to it doesn't mean something isn't wrong with it. The bow combat alone hints at underlying issues and if you ignore that then you're just as bad as Ut.
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

<Prior Amod>
15,794
9,204
moontayle_sl said:
*cough* He does have a point, ranting aside.

I was a part of the behind the scenes process on the Combat Update that hit SWG after JtL launched. Even then it was mostly an attempt to simplify the way combat worked and reign in some of the results of the emergent gameplay that had come as a result of extremely dedicated crafters. Did you know that it was possible to craft a set of armor that mitigated 99.9% of the damage dealt to you? Sure, it took a lot of time and patience due to the nature of the shifting resource system, but it was done and the devs never even saw it coming. But even with the CU, the changes made were integrated into the system that already existed. From the time I saw the bullet points on what they intended to do and when it hit the test server was about 6 months. To add on to an existing system. (note: I can't speak to the NGE, I had moved on by that point)

Ut's point is that it's way too late in the game for ZO to shift gears on combat, and that in the 6 weeks that remain before release it's not going to happen, even if they did a 180-degree turn and focused entirely on ironing out the bugs. Now, unlike Ut I can understand how some people can "get used" to the system, but getting used to it doesn't mean something isn't wrong with it. The bow combat alone hints at underlying issues and if you ignore that then you're just as bad as Ut.
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Well said sir.

And to back up both this point and Ut's, combat in this game is awful and only a total and complete overhaul would save it....which isn't going to happen before launch.
 
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signati_sl

shitlord
102
0
Tarrant_sl said:
only a total and complete overhaul would save it....
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Only? The most droned-on points are the feel of impact and bow LOS issues, both of which are being worked on as we speak. The latter is likely already fixed. There's no way something that simple could be difficult to repair. Stealth PvP could be fixed just by having tab targeting drop when invis abilities are used but not invis potions. Complaining that newbie zone overworld trash is too easy with a better challenge a couple minutes away just comes across like not wanting to share the world with others -- funny enough a total role reversal between single player fanatics and MMO vets.

Ut comes across like he either has a vested interest in seeing ESO fail that has nothing to do with ESO's gameplay itself, or he knows something that we don't and has enough class to respect NDA. As passionate as he is, I'd like to lean toward the latter. But if that turns out untrue, then it will be hard not to take his words with a grain of salt in the future. Well, at least until he actually likes a game. Then I'll know where his money is and think of his reviews as a sale (albeit, I'd expect a good pitch).
 
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Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
moontayle_sl said:
it's way too late in the game for ZO to shift gears on combat, and that in the 6 weeks that remain before release it's not going to happen, even if they did a 180-degree turn and focused entirely on ironing out the bugs. Now, unlike Ut I can understand how some people can "get used" to the system, but getting used to it doesn't mean something isn't wrong with it. The bow combat alone hints at underlying issues and if you ignore that then you're just as bad as Ut.
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I agree that the combat won't be completely overhauled, but it really doesn't need to be. It is actually better than Skyrim and far better than EQ2. I do think they can add animations and upgrade it, but it doesn't need to be completely overhauled. I disagree with ironing out the bugs. They'll be fixing those for the next six months at least before turning more to new content. That's how MMOs go.

Some people will be fine with the combat, some won't. It's not game breaking, and it works. It leaves a lot to be desired. I love WOW's combat, but loathe and can't play the game. I do wish TESO had copied EQ/WOWs system but again that is my personal preference. This games combat is playable. My initial thought is their immediate problems are not with combat, but with phase bugs, queues, and social content.
 
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