The Elder Scrolls Online

Tuco_sl said:

I'm pretty confident you're wrong about that, do you have any evidence that the cities aren't phased?

As far as I know the only zone that isn't phased is Cyrodiil, but it's instanced and I have reason to believe they change the population thresholds dynamically.

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I don't have anyway to provide any concrete evidence. Just like the assumptions that the game is losing players, all I can do is make assumptions based on anecdotal evidence.

There is no question the population visibly decreased after the first month. There was also a visible decrease when Wildstar came out. In addition to crowd size at social hubs, the number of guildmates online during primetime was one other anecdotal method to measure population. This number was also visibly dropping.

After this decrease around the 2-3 month mark comes Quakecon, new Cyrodil campaign design, Steam release, 1.3 patch released, disappearance of all bots, improved stability, returnees from Wildstar all adding up to a noticeable increase in players.

There was a thread on the forums hypothesizing on the number of subs and all of the points made here the last couple of pages were made there (ex. the illusion the megaserver creates). It was there where I read that crowd size in the social hubs were the only way to gauge population.

I could be wrong but I do know the number of guildmates logged in at primetime is still around 100 so if you guys are correct and the game is losing players, at least the ones that matter to me are still playing.

The game is obviously declining in population and has been. Saying otherwise is just being a dumbass or a troll.

I'm gone a few months, come back and see Rescorla is still trying to fight the good fight.

Don't gloss over Steam's huge influx of players too quickly! I want to hear more about that.

Last 30 Days 1,104.2 -143.5-11.50%2,201

So on July 23, they had 2,931 active players. Yesterday as the last full day they had 932. I know there's school and all but man.. those numbers sure don't support Res' claim that it's more crowded or that there was a huge influx than it was at launch at all.

The only way it would be given those numbers would be they'd have to be selling way more boxes outside of Steam and I don't see that happening as Steam is probably going to be your widest distribution point after a launch. Just look what it did for a game like Rift when they released (and re-released) to Steam.

Tuco_sl said:

Honestly Resco, the claim that cities are not phased and are still busy is just another time you've put out false statements that you should've known were false. There's just too many times you've put out unsubstantiated bullshit that was untrue in defense of ESO you've lost too much credibility with anything you say in defense of ESO. I feel like I could find out what guild you're in, join it, see that there's 5 people online, 2 of which are bots, post proof you're talking out of your ass again and you'd shrug it off saying, "Well my uncle plays it still and that's all that really matters."

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Let me know if you resub and I'll make sure you get an invite.

I do find it odd how you now state there have been "too many times you've put out unsubstantiated bullshit" when in the past you have been the one mod who was willing to admit I was telling the truth while confirming others were making shit up.

One question for you. If new features are added to Cyrodil based on the recommendations PRX (the ones you posted here a couple months back) provided to ZOS, would you resub to see how they were working out?

Rescorla_sl said:

One question for you. If new features are added to Cyrodil based on the recommendations PRX (the ones you posted here a couple months back) provided to ZOS, would you resub to see how they were working out?

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One question for you.

If you've got a choice between one game that's practically a sandbox with open-world PvP and another that's practically nothing like a sandbox with instanced, limited PvP, which one would you choose based on that?

Jackdaddio_sl said:

Don't gloss over Steam's huge influx of players too quickly! I want to hear more about that.

Last 30 Days 1,104.2 -143.5-11.50%2,201

So on July 23, they had 2,931 active players. Yesterday as the last full day they had 932. I know there's school and all but man.. those numbers sure don't support Res' claim that it's more crowded or that there was a huge influx than it was at launch at all.

The only way it would be given those numbers would be they'd have to be selling way more boxes outside of Steam and I don't see that happening as Steam is probably going to be your widest distribution point after a launch. Just look what it did for a game like Rift when they released (and re-released) to Steam.

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You have a bad habit of twisting my words and resorting to strawman arguments.

I did not say the influx from Steam was more than it was at launch. It was nowhere close to the number of initial box sales. What I did say was that the number of new players via Steam was noticeable.

If you are going to criticize something I say at least make sure you understand what I am actually saying.

Jackdaddio_sl said:

One question for you.

If you've got a choice between one game that's practically a sandbox with open-world PvP and another that's practically nothing like a sandbox with instanced, limited PvP, which one would you choose based on that?

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I'm primarily a PVE player who likes to raid and do group dungeons. When I PVP, I prefer instanced PVP with equal sized teams so that skill and teamwork matter more than who has the biggest zerg.

Don't all MMOs see a decline in population after launch? When it goes f2p, that's when I assume it's not meeting its goals.

Draegan_sl said:

The game is obviously declining in population and has been. Saying otherwise is just being a dumbass or a troll.

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Well I'm neither so try again.

I'm one of the few posters here who doesn't state my opinion as fact. No one here can prove one way or the other what the sub numbers are since that info private.

How do you know with 100% certainty the population is "obviously" declining? When was the last time you logged in and saw things for yourself?

What a lot of people here don't seem to comprehend is that there are a horde of casuals out there happily enjoying this game. I know it may boggle the minds of some of you that other gamers think differently than you but welcome to the real world.

For every hardcore PVPer, min/maxer, Elitist Jerk end game raider there are a ton of casuals out there that outnumber them. In my guild alone there are roughly 10 regular players who are 60+ years old and a few of them still don't have a character who has defeated Molag Bal yet. Every single one of these 60+ year old players think TESO is the best MMO ever. I am not exaggerating at all when I say that because I hear it almost every night in voice chat.

This community is an extremely small segment of the entire MMO player community. The demographic this community's represents are typically the most hardcore player who is the best of the best and always at the leading edge of the content. You guys may be the best MMO players out there but as a demographic IMO you are vastly outnumbered.

That is one of the points I have been trying to get across. When making a design decision about this game, almost assuredly ZOS decided to go with the option that would satisfy the casuals because they knew they would have significantly more of them playing the game than hardcore players like you find in PRX.

Who the fuck cares how many active subs there are? Isn't the whole point of the mega server to mitigate player loss? I'm guessing this is why Wildstar is implementing this technology too. Concurrency could be 10,000 players or 1,000,000 and you'd never know the difference.

Well, except for all those empty Cyrodils.

Rescorla_sl said:

That is one of the points I have been trying to get across. When making a design decision about this game, almost assuredly ZOS decided to go with the option that would satisfy the casuals because they knew they would have significantly more of them playing the game than hardcore players like you find in PRX.

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If ZOS thought that was a winning strategy they are about as retarded as the evidence already suggests.

Yes, the casual population vastly outnumbers 'core' gamers. But guess who dominates the narrative in the gaming world? No casual wants to admit that's what they are, and they certainly aren't looking to each other for purchasing advice/reviews. If you put out a game that seasoned gamers can easily pick apart, that shit is going to trickle down to the plebs and have disastrous effect.

ESO should have been a smash fucking hit. Given the strength of the IP, breaking 1,000,000 box sales should have been a walk in the park, but we all know how that turned out. In 2014 ignoring the veteran 'core' gamer is simply not a good idea.

Rescorla_sl said:

This community is an extremely small segment of the entire MMO player community. The demographic this community's represents are typically the most hardcore player who is the best of the best and always at the leading edge of the content. You guys may be the best MMO players out there but as a demographic IMO you are vastly outnumbered.

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Remind us why you're posting on these boards again? I'm genuinely interested in your reason.

Quaid_sl said:

Yes, the casual population vastly outnumbers 'core' gamers. But guess who dominates the narrative in the gaming world? No casual wants to admit that's what they are, and they certainly aren't looking to each other for purchasing advice/reviews

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Just to make sure I understand you, it is your belief that hardcore players dominate the narrative about any given game and casual players make their decision to purchase (or keep playing) a game based on the narrative/opinions of the hardcore players?

Rescorla_sl said:

How do you know with 100% certainty the population is "obviously" declining?

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Ah, Rescorla fighting the good fight once again. Well, let's see...

• Zero communication of achieving any successful sales/subscription numbers. This is something Bethesdahas done in the past.
• Delay of console release
• Steady decrease of activity across all measurable KPIs (Reddit,Steam,Raptr, etc.)
• Layoffs

Granted, each one on their own is not a silver bullet, but taken together you can comfortably triangulate that ESO is shrinking and clearly not growing. It not an opinion, but a conclusion derived from a multitude of quantifiable data. However, your argument is that you see more people at the bank, therefore the game is healthy? Right?

Rescorla_sl said:

Just to make sure I understand you, it is your belief that hardcore players dominate the narrative about any given game and casual players make their decision to purchase (or keep playing) a game based on the narrative/opinions of the hardcore players?

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Correct

Rescorla_sl said:

Well I'm neither so try again.

I'm one of the few posters here who doesn't state my opinion as fact.

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Yeah but you're so wishy washy with everything you say it's annoying as fuck. "Oh my, but they never released details of their subs, so we can neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever know! Golly."

But then you have all the evidence you need with what Xaxius posted. You're either incredibly gullible or naive.

Draegan_sl said:

Yeah but you're so wishy washy with everything you say it's annoying as fuck. "Oh my, but they never released details of their subs, so we can neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever know! Golly."

But then you have all the evidence you need with what Xaxius posted. You're either incredibly gullible or naive.

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I'll never understand the tendency of some to irrationally back a product/corporation when they produce an inferior good.

It's like some kind of buyers remorse Stockholm syndrome