The Elder Scrolls Online

DMK, the point I was making is really not even worth carrying into a discussion where I have to defend it. On top of that I was mostly blowing off steam rather than trying to actually change something (other than by contributing by posting differently like I said I will do in the future) because of the nature of the issue - it's people's behavior on the internet. Not a whole lot to be said there. But as a final breath of air on the topic, I'm not quite sure how long you've been around the boards (and I don't mean this as an insult, you could have more time logged than me for all I know) but I will not be the only one who will tell you that incidents have in fact occurred where devs stated why they refused to discuss certain things and why we received less information than we did before a certain point or personal incident. So no, I'm not misplacing the blame nor am I confusing the issue of communication and general approach to criticism of professionals and those close to them that serve as relevant, important sources of information with other issues.

This community has a strong sense of tolerance for a borderline inappropriate tone and generally being harsh just because we're mature and typically realistic about what's going on underneath the surface here & honestly it's been the flavor of FoH/RR since it's inception. There's a difference between that and things that actually diminish the overall purpose of the discussion.

I don't even find it honestly worth talking about any more because the more I try to explain this into something more expansive to get my broader point across, the more I realize it's probably going to go off into a hundred tangents, and I don't think anyone cares a whole lot. It's all good.

The truth is, there is no way to be positive on these boards and win. You literally cannot be rational without being flamed and called a shill. If I am openly optimistic, then I'm a shill or a dummy. If I rationally point out what I don't like and then what I do like, I'm a shill because I'm following the 'shill formula' of stating negatives before the positives to 'establish credibility.'

Simple fact is, I'm looking forward to TESO because I like ES and I like DAOC. Matt Firor has never done anything to harm me or my friends/family, so I have no reason to hate him. I've gotten my money's worth out of every single MMO I've bought, including Shadowbane and that fucking game was so buggy that it established a baseline for MMO enjoyment that pretty much anything I pick up will meet.

Now, I do agree with Ut's general sentiments from time to time, but his constant tinfoil hat, crazy attacks against me anytime I'm "too positive" are fucking annoying. Then you have his fan club that pile in. I DO appreciate that some of you are quite rational, and aren't afraid to admit that you are interested or even excited about new MMO's. I know it isn't "cool" to not be rabidly pessimistic.

Actually there's an easy way to avoid being called a shill. And that is looking at what is presented and viewing it through the eyes of someone who knows the genre. If you come off with "Seriously they're doing EVERYTHING AWESOME!" when clearly shit has been done before hundreds of times? You look like a shill. Realize in advance that this board and the people associated with it (mostly) have actually played more than one or two MMOs in their day. Some of us have played dozens and a few can claim a hundred+. When the game in question is doing lots of shit other games have done but attached the "WE ARE DOING THINGS DIFFERENT!" tag? Expect to get called out on the bullshit for feeling like it is doing something different. Had you come across like the game was a rehash but a new take? Lots less flame. Claiming it is all amazing new shit like you have been just makes you look like a mmo newblar and nobody fucking trusts a newblar.

cinge_sl said:

UT's been that way forever, and correct me If I am wrong, pretty sure that was the reason he was banned on FoH. And UT you take it way beyond "honesty" and "just telling like it is". You sound like a ex, who for the rest of their bitter lives will curse and scream about their former relationship to anyone that will listen 24/7, never letting go and forever unhappy.

Draegan is interesting, at times he jumps on the bandwagon of rabid attack dog style posting on certain projects, then flips to "fake but nuetral business position" on that same topic.

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I think I've been pretty consistent. The only bandwagon I'm on right now is HEX and Wildstar, both because the developers are pretty open with what they are doing.

The honest and frank discussion about games and MMOs in particular are why I like rerolled and started posting here. As fun as it is talking with you guys you don't have any control about what goes on in the industry, hell 90% of the developers working on a game have little to no control over what direction it goes. Really that is why they don't come here to talk about their games, it is because they don't want to attempt to defend the indefensible.

Blackwulf_sl said:

The truth is, there is no way to be positive on these boards and win.

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Neverwinter, Wildstar, HEX, FFXIV, WOW threads, just off the top of my head, are almost all positive.

Not even counting the EQ threads.

Also the GW2 used to be mostly positive until after it fell off the radar.

It's easy to be unimpressed in a genre/medium that is flooded with mediocrity. I'm just not that attached to this or that project. Wildstar has potential considering the attitude of the development team, but they are in a precarious position. Failing to fulfill their potential is more likely than exceeding our expectations.

While I don't really agree with Blackwulf's ol'times style inquisition, I'd have to agree with Utnayan views on that tesotester : I don't really mind the "we" use but when you read his text as a whole, it doesn't really bring breaking news, just a rehash from things already out in the open and the only things we learn is obvious stuff already discussed on fansites. On the other hand, he glorifies the game like it's the new God of MMO, graphics are awesome, animations weren't but got a pass and now they're awesome, combat is awesome because fuck you you can hit your enemies with mouse buttons and everything is fucking awesome praise the Lord.

It's obvious this guy is either a rabid fanboy or a paid employee. Considering how the review is well written, seems informed on internal builds and centered about shitting on leaks, I'd say it's from someone who got paid : you don't really spend this much time forging a top notch article when you're in a testing program from one of the most anticiped MMO out there. We've all seen the leaked videos, it objectively looks bad regarding most features (graphics, animations, combat, etc). And that tesotester even spends time dissing the leaks. Who does he think he is kidding ?

About the deleted comments, I really don't get why the guy running Betacake is deleting comments calling the review bullshit. It would be in the site's interest to unmask spindoctor PR bullshit, I mean that's why you'd breach NDAs, right ? Glory and pride, not money ?

Bondurant_sl said:

About the deleted comments, I really don't get why the guy running Betacake is deleting comments calling the review bullshit. It would be in the site's interest to unmask spindoctor PR bullshit, I mean that's why you'd breach NDAs, right ? Glory and pride, not money ?

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There is tendency for some gaming posters to fill up space with wild accusations, hyperbole and personal attacks. Without posting facts to back up their claims. It really makes threads unreadable after a while. I suspect BetaCake just wants to keep the threads more informative and less cesspool like.

So obviously I'm a regular here and have been for ages (old site obviously). I'm shocked at a few things:

A. Some thought what I wrote was well written, enough to accuse me of being paid for it which I'm not. That was all pretty quickly thrown together and I hardly had time to check for your and you're errors.

B. Think that I work for ZOS or am involved with TESO in a way other than a tester. Which I am not.

C. Flipped right the fuck out when I trashed that early release video

I'll gladly discuss the game with everyone here. The good, the bad and the mediocre. I listed quite a few things wrong with it in the comments so I'm not really sure how I can be shilling for them when many of the things I pointed out were simply stupid and I said exactly that. Namely removing name plates and combat info which just about everyone wants back in and likely will be back in.

Game engine is rock solid
Graphics are excellent
Animations are much better but still need work (they are borderline acceptable now) and its clear there will be more coming on this as things progress.
Armor skins are not varied at all right now despite there being a good bit of loot. Certainly needs a lot of work.
Questing, story and how its done is similar to other games but better
Combat is solid, there still needs to be some work on dodge, UI elements and animations while better than they were could still be improved.
Certain weapons need work. Destruction staff is probably the weakest by far. Dual wield or 2h are the most OP atm.

So how about we discuss this without being dicks? I won't live in this thread but I'll certainly swing by from time to time to answer questions.

So blackwulf apparently forgot that his alt account was logged in. Or something.

Game looks pretty similar to every other mmorpg on the market. The graphics look like other games that have come out, the engine is debatable (lets see some hardcore min-maxed raid footage at high resolution or something before we call it rock solid) and frankly the ideas behind the combat and weapons seem underwhelming as someone who has played the shit out of these types of games.

The things you just went on about sort of look the same as other things in other games. Much like the masses, I am waiting for it to show me something different before I start to care more than I already do. Which since I am a TES lore fucking junkie, odds are I am still more interested even with those caveats I mentioned than most actual mmorpg players are. Surprise me and entice me. Don't sell me fucking Wonderbread.

Lol oh boy

I love the internet.

Lol I'm not one to read threads when I'm at the bar but this has my attention lol

This thread has potential!

I didn't read the cake thread so ill just ask here...

Testotester: what makes this game so amazing? Just give me a solid run down of the first 10 levels.. What are the hooks that will draw me in?

zzeris_sl said:

Great post and I believe the same thing. The genre hasn't moved forward very much at all so exactly why should we try to be shills? Just to get some random dev to 'give us the goods'? I much prefer the rants of UT to the slurping of Shilling every time he decided to give us some random thoughts on the awesomeness of his game. Much like Draegan just posted, if you want players to give good word of mouth, then give us something. Don't hide your game and I could care less if some people here miss 'the good ole days'. Fuck the reputation of the FoH forums honestly. Are they still around? Times change, yet the genre hasn't very much. If a dev isn't proud enough of his game to show us why it's good, then fuck listening to him make some shit up. Ut, keep up the rabid. It sounds better than the slurping.

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This, this, this!

What the hell is really going on here?Italics.